Sanguis Astroism

[Geronus]

So the implication is that unless you're an active member of SA, and you contribute, and you're a member of any of the theocratic realms, their vassals, neighbors, or any realm politically intimidated by SA, you're just out of luck?

That is just a game killing attitude. This war will exist because many players are sick of the SA coalition, and true to the Battle Master spirit, want to overturn it and make something different. We should encourage a split!

No, that's not the implication. The implication is that SA is fun in its own right, not necessarily the banal, fun-killing organization that you and others are intent on making it out to be.

If you don't like SA, do something to change it, either from the outside or the inside. There's nothing wrong with trying to get a war going. However, please appreciate the fact that there are many people who actually like SA and enjoy what it brings to the game who are not particularly interested in blowing up the organization just for your entertainment.

[Wolfang]

The fact remains, the SA realms are emptying out. That's probably a good indicator of fun, and SA is failing at it.

[Zakilevo]

Well SA itself is not boring. Just theocracies are. You can always expect to have many players in good realms Boring ones just lose nobles one by one. By wiping one or two theocracies, everyone can benefit More room to breathe and more nobles for everyone \o/

[Glaumring the Fox]

The original intention of the theocracies was that they would at times war eachother, absorb, break apart and repeat. What instead has happened is stagnation and locked alliances that are killing what you love so much. Just because the theocracies fight doesnt mean SA dies. At the rate you are goong with noble attrition both your realms and religion will kill themselves off without any of us having to do a thing. 

[Vellos]

Well SA itself is not boring. Just theocracies are. You can always expect to have many players in good realms Boring ones just lose nobles one by one. By wiping one or two theocracies, everyone can benefit More room to breathe and more nobles for everyone \o/

Yes and no.

If it were merely a question of killing a theocracy, that's one thing.

But the groups wanting to kill the theocracy in question are also those who want to see weak elders replaced by national delegations, with no authority over secular politics.

So it's a question of a war for those who favor an interesting, developed, involved game religion vs. those who favor a disengaged, local-flavor, powerless religion. Which is a classic medieval struggle, and fine, except that most players naturally drift into the anti-religious camp simply because we're moderns and that's how we think.

[Perth]

An SA that saw SA realms fighting each other a la Medieval Catholic realms fought each other would be great and I don't think anyone would object to that.

The problem comes truly from the nature of BM wars which is that BM wars have a high frequency of being wars whose only result can be the death of either realm involved. Thus SA realms don't war each other because to do so would actually mean the faith losing strength as most wars involve the total collapse of the enemy realm.

If wars in BM were more about limited goals then I think we would see much more intra-SA fighting. Alas, BM just doesn't work that way most of the time.

[Sacha]

There's been plenty of intra-SA fighting, including wholesale destruction of SA realms by other SA realms.

[Stabbity]

There's been plenty of intra-SA fighting, including wholesale destruction of SA realms by other SA realms.

And well over a RL year of realm killing stagnation. Barring the Kabrinskia implosion, the face of the theocracies changed zero. When the seat of Sanguis Astroism finds itself with more regions than nobles there is something wrong.

[Sacha]

So everybody wants a big war involving SA, but nobody wants to be the first to make a move, and then it's SA's fault things stagnate because they keep 'dominating' the island... Holy crap it's Atamara all over again. Sanguis Cagilism?

[Frostwood]

So everybody wants a big war involving SA, but nobody wants to be the first to make a move, and then it's SA's fault things stagnate because they keep 'dominating' the island... Holy crap it's Atamara all over again. Sanguis Cagilism?

Hence King Leopold making the first move, and all the simmering discontent is coming to life.  They just needed a SA ruler as the lightning rod.

[Meneldur]

So everybody wants a big war involving SA, but nobody wants to be the first to make a move, and then it's SA's fault things stagnate because they keep 'dominating' the island... Holy crap it's Atamara all over again. Sanguis Cagilism?

Exactly! Sick of a domineering Church, power-hungry Elders and lovey-dubby theocracies? Go to war and try to crush the Church, replace the Eldes and destroy the theocracies! That's what Leopold is doing and the North looks like its finally going to get interesting again.

Sitting on the forums and typing: "boring fun-killing evil SA, why don't you just destroy yourselves randomly for little rp reason so we can have OOC "fun"" is not the way to go. A conflict is made interesting because there are opposing sides, and both sides do everything in their power to win. A manufactured implosion for OOC reasons is over quickly and results in even more boredom.

I do think it will be a shame if SA is reduced to just another powerless flavor religion, but then again I've had more fun in SA than most so I'm rather biased. And even SA gets boring without a good crusade once in a while.

[Telamon]

Exactly! Sick of a domineering Church, power-hungry Elders and lovey-dubby theocracies? Go to war and try to crush the Church, replace the Eldes and destroy the theocracies! That's what Leopold is doing and the North looks like its finally going to get interesting again.

Sitting on the forums and typing: "boring fun-killing evil SA, why don't you just destroy yourselves randomly for little rp reason so we can have OOC "fun"" is not the way to go. A conflict is made interesting because there are opposing sides, and both sides do everything in their power to win. A manufactured implosion for OOC reasons is over quickly and results in even more boredom.

I agree with this. We're going to have our war and it'll be dang interesting!

[Stabbity]

So everybody wants a big war involving SA, but nobody wants to be the first to make a move, and then it's SA's fault things stagnate because they keep 'dominating' the island... Holy crap it's Atamara all over again. Sanguis Cagilism?

The first move is coming.

[Frostwood]

The first move is coming.

Shhh....

[Wolfang]

Exactly! Sick of a domineering Church, power-hungry Elders and lovey-dubby theocracies? Go to war and try to crush the Church, replace the Eldes and destroy the theocracies! That's what Leopold is doing and the North looks like its finally going to get interesting again.

Sitting on the forums and typing: "boring fun-killing evil SA, why don't you just destroy yourselves randomly for little rp reason so we can have OOC "fun"" is not the way to go. A conflict is made interesting because there are opposing sides, and both sides do everything in their power to win. A manufactured implosion for OOC reasons is over quickly and results in even more boredom.

I do think it will be a shame if SA is reduced to just another powerless flavor religion, but then again I've had more fun in SA than most so I'm rather biased. And even SA gets boring without a good crusade once in a while.

Well, most of the southern realms are already (always) at war, and tensions remin high between those that are not.