Author Topic: Sanguis Astroism  (Read 266833 times)

Anaris

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #4125: October 19, 2014, 05:08:41 PM »
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Eduardo Almighty

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #4126: October 19, 2014, 05:12:53 PM »
Quote
Give it time.

I'll close your temples, and you can't stop me.

Sounds like Erik before a yellow message  8)
Now with the Skovgaard Family... and it's gone.
Serpentis again!

Chenier

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #4127: October 19, 2014, 05:16:53 PM »

Anaris

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #4128: October 19, 2014, 05:20:07 PM »
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Chenier

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #4129: October 19, 2014, 05:46:04 PM »
Then they should all leave, and start a competing religion en masse.

Well, I've had plans for it for years, but I just haven't had time. Sorry.

That doesn't give you license to abuse game mechanics.

That's a political struggle. That's frustrating, and ugly, but as far as the rules are concerned, fine. There's a fundamental difference between that and abusing the mechanics of a priest to deliberately deconvert believers.

You can call [email protected]#$ all you want, but that's exactly what I'm telling you.

If your character does not believe in the teachings of the religion he is a priest of, then he is no longer truly a priest of that religion, and should simply leave it.

Almost every priest action is a pointless deconvert action. ALWAYS.

There is no "deconvert"-named button. There is only influence follower buttons. And there is plenty of reason to influence followers against an enemy nation that houses a competing church. Now, if that happens to deconvert the region, that's just because of how [email protected]#$ing pointless the priest game is. Alaster opposes ESA, which is housed in Luria Nova. That's the [email protected]#$ing irony of it. I could be Alaster's most loyal follower, and conduct precisely the same acts as I do as his opposer.

Piousness is independant of whatever lame gamey shennenigans the guild leaders have. Players are not to be hostages to whatever clowns abuse of the ridiculous guild mechanics religions use.

And every single antecedent has backed up the IR of choosing one's class, regardless of how stupid the contexts were. To decide otherwise now, to overwrite the IRs on such an arbitrary basis, would completely contradict all precedents. A ton of characters became priests for the sole purpose of being immune to expulsion all while abusing of this protection. Their right to remain priests has always been defended and all titan complaints against them has always failed.

Anaris

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #4130: October 19, 2014, 05:58:09 PM »
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

D`Este

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #4131: October 19, 2014, 10:49:58 PM »

Chenier

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #4132: October 19, 2014, 11:59:12 PM »

Anaris

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #4133: October 20, 2014, 12:13:34 AM »
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Chenier

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #4134: October 20, 2014, 03:17:57 AM »
Honestly, you could remove "Influence followers" from priests, and it wouldn't be a nerf. Heck, it'd be a boon. That action sucks at everything else than sabotaging your own religion. The more "advanced" you get access to, the worse it gets.

A senior priest with 100 oratory fame can't cause more harm to a region than what it can naturally recover by itself at TC. He can't fix a region any more quickly than a newbie courtier who just started out. He can't increase or decrease sympathy any more than a newbie diplomat. The deaths from his mobs will likely go unnoticed and will undo themselves within days.

It's an awful ability.

By the way, Alaster is dead, so SA is now somewhat "unsurped". It can now return on its slow path to death.

Antonine

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #4135: October 20, 2014, 07:14:42 PM »

Chenier

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #4136: October 20, 2014, 07:38:34 PM »
This is complete nonsense. I can say first hand that influence followers can be an extremely powerful weapon (and occasional regional maintenance tool) when used correctly. It's really good at lowering enemy realm control, for example. And if you can't find something useful to do with that then the problem is with you rather than the mechanic not doing anything.

That being said, reducing the number of followers lost by using it wouldn't hurt.

My experience is always the same with these abilities. Zero impact, huge cost. Every time. Different characters (all top skills in oratory), different continents, targets in different starting condition, always the same result. Always. I used to think it was powerful and feared enemy priests, but that's before I became experienced at playing a priest myself.

Eduardo Almighty

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #4137: October 21, 2014, 02:32:45 AM »
I used it... unh... three times. Too hard to get followers these days to lose a lot of them to have a boost. But for your "purposes", hell yeah! The easiest way to lose followers...

It's like years of work to convert them, then you use one option... they've gone.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 02:35:22 AM by Eduardo Almighty »
Now with the Skovgaard Family... and it's gone.
Serpentis again!

Chenier

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #4138: October 21, 2014, 03:01:26 AM »
I used it... unh... three times. Too hard to get followers these days to lose a lot of them to have a boost. But for your "purposes", hell yeah! The easiest way to lose followers...

It's like years of work to convert them, then you use one option... they've gone.

I've used them in regions with large populations, over 95% following, large temples, top oratory skill and as an elder of the faith. Mobs would cause somewhat more deaths than in less-optimal situations, but otherwise no priest action did visible or lasting damage. So even if you'd get these followers, it wouldn't be any stronger than what you've seen yourself.