Author Topic: Sanguis Astroism  (Read 1016275 times)

Vellos

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #60: October 28, 2011, 08:22:31 AM »
Out of curiosity, why did you seek Asylon as a partner in a treaty granting Terran domain over three regions that had absolutely nothing at all to do with Asylon? Was it just because Asylon was signatory to the original treaty? Because, really, that's the part of it that seems the silliest of all, and is probably pisses Brance off more than anything else. "Hey Astrum, we're taking these three regions. And it's all cool, because Asylon says so!"

Many reasons:
1. Legal Claims of Central Occidens
Asylon was a signatory. Seemed like a good idea to talk to'em. Moreover, the Legal Claims state that claims can be transferred. Numerous Caerwynians joined Asylon, and the "government in exile" in Madina seemed fine with annexation. Only Itau could oppose, and Terran decided to nullify their claim. So we regarded Asylon as the implicit claim-holders: again, because it just didn't occur to me that there was any immediate question of Golden Farrow being colonized.

2. Asylon's Expanse
When I started plotting Terran's northward expansion, Asylon held Farrowfield. We weren't sure of Asylon's capability to hold any of these lands, but that's how things stood. As Asylon could make a real claim to inheriting Caerwyn's claims, and as they pragmatically had a big influx of nobles and their borders practically encircled Terran, they seemed like the logical people to approach. It doesn't look that way now that they've lost a few regions and there's an Astrum flag on the map. But it sure looked that way two or three weeks ago.

3. Diplomacy
Never miss a chance to make a friend. Hash out an agreement that grants us both claims we never had any intention of violating? Wonderful! It means we have a conversation and learn how to work with one another. Hireshmont is big into personal diplomacy, largely because I enjoy it as a player.
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De-Legro

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #61: October 28, 2011, 12:39:35 PM »
That would apply to regions that were never colonized or claimed by anyone. For example, D'Hara claiming to Desert of Silouhettes, and making deals with people to have them all recognize this to put pressure on everyone else to not contest the claim.

Denmyask, though? It seemed pretty obvious the Astrum colony would want it. And Asylon saying "sure, you can have it" doesn't really mean squat as they obviously don't hold any authority over it.

Previous occupation of the region is just a greater reason to seek OTHERS to ratify your own claim in order to challenge the logical claim of the successor realm.
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Chenier

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #62: October 28, 2011, 01:48:02 PM »
Previous occupation of the region is just a greater reason to seek OTHERS to ratify your own claim in order to challenge the logical claim of the successor realm.

That wasn't their goal, though. Vellos said so: he just overlooked it.
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Indirik

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #63: October 28, 2011, 05:26:33 PM »
Many reasons:
1. Legal Claims of Central Occidens
Asylon was a signatory.
That seemed like the most logical reason. I wouldn't have considered Asylon a claim holder on that land, though.

Quote
2. Asylon's Expanse
When I started plotting Terran's northward expansion, Asylon held Farrowfield. We weren't sure of Asylon's capability to hold any of these lands, but that's how things stood. As Asylon could make a real claim to inheriting Caerwyn's claims, and as they pragmatically had a big influx of nobles and their borders practically encircled Terran, they seemed like the logical people to approach. It doesn't look that way now that they've lost a few regions and there's an Astrum flag on the map. But it sure looked that way two or three weeks ago.
If all you did was look at flags on a map, then sure, you could think that was the situation. But if you took a good look at the real situation "on the ground", so to speak, it was anything but that. We knew that Asylon would never hold all that land. Didn't ever have a prayer at holding it. And Asylon already knew that Astrum claimed all that land for the new colony.
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Glaumring the Fox

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #64: October 28, 2011, 09:09:14 PM »
Astrum said, the reality is that our flag flew over many of those lands. We allowed some of the lands to faulter of goodwill to Astrum. Any lands that caerwyn claimed but never flew flag over we didnt respect anyways. The middle regions are messy, the new colony is in a messy area. Asylon has ceded certain lands to Terran and Astrum.
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Zakilevo

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #65: October 29, 2011, 12:22:08 AM »
Does Asylon even have any claim over any land except the west side of Via? I mean only reason they gained any land above Via was because Caerwyn surrendered to Asylon. Doubt they can be counted as gaining a claim.

Indirik

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #66: October 29, 2011, 02:27:02 AM »
Depends on how you view the claim. The prior lords and nobles can surely be said to have a personal claim. And the realm can choose to press that claim on their behalf.
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Galvez

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #67: October 31, 2011, 11:53:20 AM »
It does not matter who has claim to what. For a new realm to succeed in Golden Farrow it shouldn't desire a war with Asylon and the 'Moot. And therefore give Terran and Asylon what they want.  ;)
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Indirik

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #68: October 31, 2011, 12:52:00 PM »
Given the historical track record of any realm declaring war and attacking SA theocracies, I'd think you would want to avoid that at all costs, unless you have a death wish.

But I'm not sure how you think the situation would devolve into war with Asylon, of all realms. Since Asylon is not asking for anything at all, I fail to see how they could not get what they want. Even the treaty with Terran that Asylon signed last week gives them nothing beyond a mutual defense treaty of negligible value.

And besides all that, this is Allison moving into Golden Farrow. Do you really think she won't start up trouble with someone?
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Galvez

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #69: October 31, 2011, 01:25:31 PM »
So in fact you are saying, destroy Allison's realm now, or else she will come to destroy us.
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Indirik

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #70: October 31, 2011, 01:33:12 PM »
You're welcome to give it a try. It could be a fun diversion for a day or two.
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vonGenf

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #71: October 31, 2011, 01:47:32 PM »
So in fact you are saying, destroy Allison's realm now, or else she will come to destroy us.

Resistance IS futile. Come on, you know that.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Lorgan

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #72: October 31, 2011, 04:03:11 PM »
It's unsettling how Dwilight's history resembles a bad action film scene where the hero finds himself surrounded by a dozen crooks who are somehow well-mannered enough to only charge at him one after another.

Vellos

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #73: October 31, 2011, 04:05:25 PM »
Since Asylon is not asking for anything at all

Neither is Terran.
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Galvez

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #74: October 31, 2011, 04:51:59 PM »
You're welcome to give it a try. It could be a fun diversion for a day or two.
Resistance IS futile. Come on, you know that.
The Astroists are a little overconfident, aren't they?  :D
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