Author Topic: Sanguis Astroism  (Read 1016730 times)

Creed

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #390: February 16, 2012, 04:49:56 PM »
The person making these statements was challenged by a couple people to death duels. He replied that he wouldn't accept the challenges, regardless of the insults and cries of cowardice, unless he could get some personal gain out of it. Something like "unless I can personally profit from killing you" or something like that. The fact that the leaders of the guild did not take issue with this is unacceptable to me. There were just a few calls from some members to "take it to personal messages". Nothing like "It is unacceptable for such a prestigious noble, a council member no less, to display such ignoble behavior, and it will not be tolerated in the University." Which, to me, is the minimum that the guild should do.

This is not "mostly harmless". I consider this type of playing to be detrimental to the game atmosphere. It is behavior that should not be allowed out of any noble, let alone the council member of a realm. To insult a foreign duke in such a manner and refuse to accept the resulting multiple duel challenges. The fact that the Dwilight University is such a widespread, multi-realm guild only makes it worse. The improper behavior is therefore more widespread.

It is up to the players to uphold the atmosphere of the game. Since the DU appears to me to be detrimental to the atmosphere of the game, and personally unacceptable to Brance, I'm going to remove it from Libidizedd. Brance hasn't decided yet if he will ban it from Astrum completely. It will be a few weeks until I can return to Libidizedd to do it, though. We'll see if the DU manages to redeem itself before then.

First off some of the death duel challenges made no since and would not happen in real life I got one from  a marshal that I have never even spoke to and the fact is I cant duel every single person that wanted to death duel me I would have to go all over the continent.

Indirik like I stated I did accept a death duel with the  main person I insulted. I am still waiting for a response from him.

   
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 04:51:36 PM by Creed »

Creed

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #391: February 16, 2012, 04:50:41 PM »
Was? I had no idea you took BM so seriously.....  ;)

lol still is.

vonGenf

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #392: February 16, 2012, 04:52:05 PM »
This is not "mostly harmless". I consider this type of playing to be detrimental to the game atmosphere. It is behavior that should not be allowed out of any noble, let alone the council member of a realm. To insult a foreign duke in such a manner and refuse to accept the resulting multiple duel challenges. The fact that the Dwilight University is such a widespread, multi-realm guild only makes it worse. The improper behavior is therefore more widespread.

Hum, I see your point. Pierre was pretty happy to see the duel challenge, and though it was warranted. His main concern was to stop the improper behaviour within the University ("Have your duel, but have it outside.")

I didn't see it as a role of the DU to monitor who accepts duel challenges and who doesn't among students. I do try to maintain a separation between who you are in the "real" world and who you are in the University. This is a courtyard brawl between students that professors should not get embroiled in it to decide who is right and who isn't. But it is true that that's not very medieval: a Duke is a Duke, and should be treated as such everywhere.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Indirik

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #393: February 16, 2012, 04:55:25 PM »
Well before you all go calling me a coward I did accept one death duel in private and am waiting for a response. So don't go around calling people cowards if you dont know all the facts.
Wait...

  • The insult was public.
  • The multiple challenges were public.
  • The multiple refusals were public.
  • The single acceptance was private.

And you're criticizing people for not knowing all the facts? How did you expect them to know that you really did accept one duel? Of course they're calling you a coward. And rightly so. If you expect people to know "all the facts", then you had best make the effort to tell them the facts, or don't be surprised when they don't.
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Creed

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #394: February 16, 2012, 04:59:57 PM »
Wait...

  • The insult was public.
  • The multiple challenges were public.
  • The multiple refusals were public.
  • The single acceptance was private.

And you're criticizing people for not knowing all the facts? How did you expect them to know that you really did accept one duel? Of course they're calling you a coward. And rightly so. If you expect people to know "all the facts", then you had best make the effort to tell them the facts, or don't be surprised when they don't.

I said in public I would duel him if I received his city If I won  not my fault if you did not read that. I am still waiting for him to answer. I sent him a another letter to him last night to see if he is willing to accept.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 05:02:54 PM by Creed »

Indirik

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #395: February 16, 2012, 05:02:03 PM »
I didn't see it as a role of the DU to monitor who accepts duel challenges and who doesn't among students.
It is the role of the Elders of the guild to maintain decorum and civility among their members.

Quote
I do try to maintain a separation between who you are in the "real" world and who you are in the University. This is a courtyard brawl between students that professors should not get embroiled in it to decide who is right and who isn't.
In a way, I agree. They should not step in and say determine who is the right and who the wrong. But they *should* step in and say "This behavior is unacceptable in the University." The Elders need to step in and stop the brawl, and make it clear that brawling isn't allowed.

Quote
But it is true that that's not very medieval: a Duke is a Duke, and should be treated as such everywhere.
I agree.
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Indirik

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #396: February 16, 2012, 05:05:26 PM »
I said in public I would duel him if I received his city If I won. not my fault if you did not read that
I did read that. It changes nothing. You refused a duel of honor. A duel for profit is not a duel of honor. I would consider this extremely ignoble behavior. After such a display as Creed exhibited in the University, I would almost certainly demand that such a person be banned from Astrum.

The point still remains: all the insults, challenges, and refusals were public. So far as anyone knows, that's all that's happened.
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Creed

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #397: February 16, 2012, 05:07:03 PM »
I did read that. It changes nothing. You refused a duel of honor. A duel for profit is not a duel of honor. I would consider this extremely ignoble behavior. After such a display as Creed exhibited in the University, I would almost certainly demand that such a person be banned from Astrum.

The point still remains: all the insults, challenges, and refusals were public. So far as anyone knows, that's all that's happened.

A duel for honor yes but my honor was never insulted. So why should I duel to the death for nothing? Also the way I play my character is my choice and who are you to tell me how to play? 
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 05:08:52 PM by Creed »

vonGenf

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #398: February 16, 2012, 05:13:04 PM »
A duel for honor yes but my honor was never insulted. So why should I duel to the death for nothing?

You insulted a nobleman. That nobleman demanded a duel. By refusing to duel, yet refusing to apologize, you imply that your words mean nothing. By accepting the duel, you would gain recognition: people would know that when you insult someone, you really mean it, and are ready to back your words with action. By refusing to duel, people can safely throw you to the bin of history. They know you bark but won't bite.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Indirik

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #399: February 16, 2012, 05:29:35 PM »
You insulted someone else. You know that you insulted someone else, and did it specifically because it was insulting. And they responded with a duel challenge. They felt that it was such a horrible insult that they decided it was worth putting their life on the line to prove it. Multiple people did so. At least one of the ones who challenged was even of equivalent station: A duke and a general. So there's no grounds for refusal based on social station. (i.e. a 17 yr old nobody challenging a king.)  You claim that your character is an expert swordsman, so there's no grounds for refusal based on a swordmaster challenging someone who doesn't know which end of the sword has the pointy bits.

Why should Creed duel? Because if he doesn't, then everyone in the University will consider him a coward. Since there's no obvious reason why he shouldn't duel after having done what he did, they have no other choice.

So, yeah, you don't have to duel. That's your choice. I'm just telling you what will happen if you don't. Your character will forever after be know to everyone in the Dwilight University as someone ignorant, loudmouthed coward.
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Creed

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #400: February 16, 2012, 05:36:12 PM »
You insulted someone else. You know that you insulted someone else, and did it specifically because it was insulting. And they responded with a duel challenge. They felt that it was such a horrible insult that they decided it was worth putting their life on the line to prove it. Multiple people did so. At least one of the ones who challenged was even of equivalent station: A duke and a general. So there's no grounds for refusal based on social station. (i.e. a 17 yr old nobody challenging a king.)  You claim that your character is an expert swordsman, so there's no grounds for refusal based on a swordmaster challenging someone who doesn't know which end of the sword has the pointy bits.

Why should Creed duel? Because if he doesn't, then everyone in the University will consider him a coward. Since there's no obvious reason why he shouldn't duel after having done what he did, they have no other choice.

So, yeah, you don't have to duel. That's your choice. I'm just telling you what will happen if you don't. Your character will forever after be know to everyone in the Dwilight University as someone ignorant, loudmouthed coward.

Well I can see your point now that you put it that way. Well I accepted his challenge so it is up to Branthorpe to accept it or not. If I hurt the game for you I am sorry was never my intention.

Velax

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #401: February 16, 2012, 05:54:19 PM »
Yeah...even if Branthorpe doesn't accept, you're still the one that will be seen as a coward.

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Geronus

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #402: February 16, 2012, 06:06:37 PM »
You could always report it as an SMA issue if you feel that strongly about it.

Creed

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #403: February 16, 2012, 06:10:20 PM »
Yeah...even if Branthorpe doesn't accept, you're still the one that will be seen as a coward.



Dont know how My character will been seen as the coward if I accept the duel and he chooses not to go through with it but whatever not really a big deal.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 06:24:07 PM by Creed »

Indirik

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #404: February 16, 2012, 08:09:12 PM »
Well I can see your point now that you put it that way. Well I accepted his challenge so it is up to Branthorpe to accept it or not. If I hurt the game for you I am sorry was never my intention.
Thank you for your change of heart.

To be clear, I'm not mad at you, or your character. You are correct in that you are allowed to play your character however you want. I wasn't trying to state that your character's actions alone soured me on the whole DU. One character acting in such a manner is no big deal. There are character with varying degrees of honor, situational ethics, ambition and sense of justice, etc. If we all thought the same, then life would be boring.

Rather, my issue with the whole situation is the way the group handled it. Just about everyone just shrugged it off. "Meh, whatever... Just take it outside." That is the situation that I really don't see as acceptable behavior from the group at large. But,hey, maybe the attitude displayed by Creed is shared by all the elders in the University. In which this is an organization Brance doesn't want to be associated with.
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