Author Topic: Sanguis Astroism  (Read 1016754 times)

Vellos

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #480: February 23, 2012, 03:28:48 AM »
It does seem odd to me that you would boast about this after being the number one critic of the Zuma a while back. If you're so very tired of them, maybe it's best not to do things like this that you *know* could provoke them? Much less boast about it on the forum where the Zuma GM can see if he bothers to look...

If the Zuma declare war on Terran and destroy us because of Triunism's presence in Zuma lands, I would be totally fine with that. You would not hear a single complaint from me at such a turn of events.
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De-Legro

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #481: February 23, 2012, 04:21:11 AM »
If the Zuma declare war on Terran and destroy us because of Triunism's presence in Zuma lands, I would be totally fine with that. You would not hear a single complaint from me at such a turn of events.

Like everything some players would be fine with it, some wouldn't. My understanding is the Triunism presence in Zuma lands comes from peaching in regions near the Zuma. I can image that quite a few players would be upset if the Zuma acted on that as the conversion of the Zuma would in that case be an unintended side effect of players preaching to their own peasants. Unless a religion has been actively preaching in Zuma lands that is a can of worms I sure wouldn't want to open.
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Vellos

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #482: February 23, 2012, 04:34:11 AM »
Like everything some players would be fine with it, some wouldn't. My understanding is the Triunism presence in Zuma lands comes from peaching in regions near the Zuma. I can image that quite a few players would be upset if the Zuma acted on that as the conversion of the Zuma would in that case be an unintended side effect of players preaching to their own peasants. Unless a religion has been actively preaching in Zuma lands that is a can of worms I sure wouldn't want to open.

It's also there because we've built shrines.
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De-Legro

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #483: February 23, 2012, 04:47:16 AM »
It's also there because we've built shrines.

Awww well see until now the Zuma couldn't see those. Who can tell what the response will be if they find out IG.
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Vellos

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #484: February 23, 2012, 06:42:07 PM »
Awww well see until now the Zuma couldn't see those. Who can tell what the response will be if they find out IG.

And again, if they declare war because of that, fine. That's perfectly fine GMing, IMHO. We clandestinely constructed shrines to a foreign religion, and have evinced a desire to subvert the hearts of the Zuma. Attack us. That's quite reasonable justification for violence.
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Indirik

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #485: February 23, 2012, 07:38:51 PM »
I just have to say, that attitude bothers me. It's OK if the Zuma destroy Terran because of something that you personally were involved in, but not if it's because of something that someone else did.

What about all the people in Terran that had nothing to do with the Triunist shrines in Zumaland? Like the Astroist players. Are they supposed to be OK with it because it was a Terran that ordered the shrines built? It may not even have been a Terran priest that built the shrines. It's not like you can tell it was a Terran. Would it be OK for the Zuma to see the Triunist shrines, see a Triunist temple in Asylon, and go destroy Asylon? I don't think the Asylonian players would like that, nor agree that it was good GMing. Or if they asked Allison, who apparently is now trusted by the Zuma (and holy crap, talk about a huge potential for serious mayhem: Allison giving guidance to the Zuma!! :o), and Allison says "The D'Harans are the ones who follow Triunism", and the Zuma go off and destroy D'Hara, what are the D'Harans supposed to do? Are they supposed to be OK with that?
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Indirik

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #486: February 23, 2012, 08:00:51 PM »
Damn it... ignore that. I should know better than to start up that discussion again....
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De-Legro

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #487: February 23, 2012, 09:38:10 PM »
Damn it... ignore that. I should know better than to start up that discussion again....

Probably should avoid it, but it was exactly what I was thinking.
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Dante Silverfire

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #488: February 23, 2012, 09:43:07 PM »
I just have to say, that attitude bothers me. It's OK if the Zuma destroy Terran because of something that you personally were involved in, but not if it's because of something that someone else did.

What about all the people in Terran that had nothing to do with the Triunist shrines in Zumaland? Like the Astroist players. Are they supposed to be OK with it because it was a Terran that ordered the shrines built? It may not even have been a Terran priest that built the shrines. It's not like you can tell it was a Terran. Would it be OK for the Zuma to see the Triunist shrines, see a Triunist temple in Asylon, and go destroy Asylon? I don't think the Asylonian players would like that, nor agree that it was good GMing. Or if they asked Allison, who apparently is now trusted by the Zuma (and holy crap, talk about a huge potential for serious mayhem: Allison giving guidance to the Zuma!! :o), and Allison says "The D'Harans are the ones who follow Triunism", and the Zuma go off and destroy D'Hara, what are the D'Harans supposed to do? Are they supposed to be OK with that?

Wait, so does this mean I can go back to try having the Zuma kill Solaria?
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Indirik

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #489: February 23, 2012, 09:57:41 PM »
Why not? You can  try to get Morek to kill Solaria. What makes the Zuma any different?
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Solari

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #490: February 23, 2012, 10:01:31 PM »
Why not? You can  try to get Morek to kill Solaria. What makes the Zuma any different?

Well, they did try.  Malus made a better offer, and did it with the only person qualified to negotiate: their ruler, not their idiot general.

De-Legro

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #491: February 23, 2012, 10:03:04 PM »
Wait, so does this mean I can go back to try having the Zuma kill Solaria?

Who ever told you that you had to stop?
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Dante Silverfire

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #492: February 23, 2012, 10:13:58 PM »
Who ever told you that you had to stop?

No one "Told me" However, there was a huge outcry against a non-Terran player trying to have Terran hurt by the Zuma and it spawned a huge 20+ page thread on how the Zuma should never exist because diplomacy with the Zuma somehow is not worth anything while diplomacy with players is. Thus, I stopped because I didn't want anyone getting mad at me on an OOC level for doing something IC that the game allows. Sure, I know how this sounds but it is 100% true that this happens.

Well, they did try.  Malus made a better offer, and did it with the only person qualified to negotiate: their ruler, not their idiot general.

This is not true at all. We didn't try to negotiate with their General. Letters were exchanged, but no actual attempt to negotiate was made, because as you said it was their General and not their ruler. And you did make a good offer, and all of Luria will hate Malus ever more for it. (when they realize)
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De-Legro

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #493: February 23, 2012, 10:18:22 PM »
No one "Told me" However, there was a huge outcry against a non-Terran player trying to have Terran hurt by the Zuma and it spawned a huge 20+ page thread on how the Zuma should never exist because diplomacy with the Zuma somehow is not worth anything while diplomacy with players is. Thus, I stopped because I didn't want anyone getting mad at me on an OOC level for doing something IC that the game allows. Sure, I know how this sounds but it is 100% true that this happens.

This is not true at all. We didn't try to negotiate with their General. Letters were exchanged, but no actual attempt to negotiate was made, because as you said it was their General and not their ruler. And you did make a good offer, and all of Luria will hate Malus ever more for it. (when they realize)

If you did it, then I would imagine you would get a fair bit of OOC hatred from some people. But then killing a realm does that, running a successful war can do that etc. If you want to ensure no one gets mad with you OOC best bet is to be a silent knight.

Also all of Luria won't hate Malus, Solaria will still loves him. If the rest of Luria doesn't at least despise him he really isn't doing much of a job at being a aggressive self centred tyrant.
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Solari

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Re: Sanguis Astroism
« Reply #494: February 23, 2012, 10:30:22 PM »
This is not true at all. We didn't try to negotiate with their General. Letters were exchanged, but no actual attempt to negotiate was made, because as you said it was their General and not their ruler. And you did make a good offer, and all of Luria will hate Malus ever more for it. (when they realize)

Nobody negotiated a deal.  Creed foolishly tried to commit Morek to a course of action Busto wasn't willing to pursue, and Malus didn't "offer" anything except religious tolerance.  There seriously wasn't a deal.  There was a period where PeL was pursuing any savior it could find, and people probably caught the stench of desperation.  That doesn't mean Malus was running around slamming doors.