Author Topic: Expansion of the Tournament Model  (Read 5333 times)

Shizzle

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Expansion of the Tournament Model
« Topic Start: October 11, 2011, 03:49:09 PM »
Many players (and characters alike) are fond of tournaments, I believe. They can be real fun events, and an excellent way to stimulate interaction or meet new people.

However, they are largely restricted to the Warrior caste. Traders or Priests seem to have little to do (except for getting their butts kicked in the first round - can they even participate? I'm not sure), and that is something that could benefit from change.

Basically, I would like to see the idea of international gatherings (with high RP value) expanded into the Trader and Priest classes. Now, I don't have any character in either class, so it's hard for me to judge, but I think both classes could really benefit from this.

For Traders, as in real-life Medieval times, regular, or irregular markets could be organised, in certain key regions. Think the annual Champagne markets. Here, large or small scale business deals could be made, Traders from different realms can share their experience or compete over assets, and simply roleplay. A Duke hosting such event could of course exclude certain factions to benefit his own, offer cheap trade offers and what not. These markets would become major events for Traders/trading nations, with economical and political influence. Perhaps even auctions could be held, where realms can get the best price for their goods? This system would also fit in great with the rumoured New Economy System, where certain regions produce certain resources.

For Priests, "Conclaves" could be held. I'm unsure on how to do this, but I think we can come up with something that is nicely analogue to Tournaments and said "Annual Markets". Then again, it is fairly easy to bring a few members of your religion together, and Priests usually have a better RP'ing base (and as such less need for game mechanics as a back-up(?))

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Now, you could of course say that any of what I have proposed will not add value, because 'you could simply roleplay those events'. I could agree for the Conclave thing, but I do think that a mechanical backgound (even if it's just some kind of invitation/announcement, nothing more) would be beneficial for the Markets. Look at tournaments: we could 'easily' send letters to all the people on our contact list, devise a duelling roster and hand out a cash prize. Nonetheless, Tournaments are a great addition. I believe Annuel Markets could bring the same joy to our hearts, be it in another form. :)
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 03:50:46 PM by Shizzle »

Nathan

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Re: Expansion of the Tournament Model
« Reply #1: October 11, 2011, 05:47:46 PM »
The idea of markets certainly seems interesting. Perhaps something like this could work:

Duke decides to host a market and sets a % fee for all sales done within the market (and perhaps a flat fee to enter), and pays the necessary gold to set up all the stalls.
Nobles go to the market and decide how much gold they're willing to spend and how much of certain resources they want to take with them from their current caravans.
Trading happens automatically with nobles buying and selling resources (like the tournament rounds happen automatically).
A noble's chance to get good deals on buying/selling is based on a skill (do trader's have a class specific skill? Perhaps Oratory?)

This would mean it's a gamble when you go. Might come back with more gold, might come back with less (much like tournaments, except more 'winners', less 'losers'). The host may or may not gain gold (again, tournament style). And everyone gets to RP before and after the market about various things (preferably not badgers).

The only problem I see is the believability that all those traders will stick around for X days with gold and goods before anything actually happens. Maybe it could be that trading sessions are run every turn until the market closes? So the closer a noble is to the market, the more trading sessions you get.

As for the priest version, I can't come up with anything overly interesting. The only thing I can think of is holding a Conclave in a city with a large temple district. It costs thousands of gold to set one up (got to arrange appropriately sanctioned beds, food, activities, etc). Peasants hear about it and are converted in regions all over the continent (or within X miles of the city, where X is related to the amount of people entering the Conclave).

Indirik

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Re: Expansion of the Tournament Model
« Reply #2: October 11, 2011, 06:42:06 PM »
This would seem to undermine what little remains of the trader's game. It sounds like it would allow traders to interact not with each other, but with faceless NPCs. (I can't see how else you could work Trading skill into it. Yes, there is a Trading skill.)
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Tom

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Re: Expansion of the Tournament Model
« Reply #3: October 11, 2011, 11:36:43 PM »
I definitely don't want to eliminate the trader game.

However, I would like to eliminate all the boring wandering around. The market basically allows traders to interact with each other over distances. But I like the idea of having to set up markets.

How about this: Markets have a reach, a distance. A trader can interact with any markets within reach. A market acts like a message channel, so all traders within reach of it can talk to each other. It also acts as an exchange, so they can not only chat, but also trade. Trading would become a lot more interactive.

Nathan

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Re: Expansion of the Tournament Model
« Reply #4: October 12, 2011, 01:08:59 AM »
This would seem to undermine what little remains of the trader's game.

Hmm, yeah, you could be right there. I'd still like to see something like what Shizzle suggested though, expanding tournament like events could really encourage some nice RPs.

How about this: Markets have a reach, a distance. A trader can interact with any markets within reach. A market acts like a message channel, so all traders within reach of it can talk to each other. It also acts as an exchange, so they can not only chat, but also trade. Trading would become a lot more interactive.

That sounds interesting.

Would trade be instantaneous between people interacting within a market's reach? Or would it take a certain number of days?

Would markets have to be built? Or would they be a feature of a region?

If built (or maybe even if not?) would there be a transaction tax? If so, a way to advertise this to traders? "Come to my region, I have only a minor tax on your dealings!"

Indirik

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Re: Expansion of the Tournament Model
« Reply #5: October 12, 2011, 04:12:00 AM »
Hmm, yeah, you could be right there. I'd still like to see something like what Shizzle suggested though, expanding tournament like events could really encourage some nice RPs.
Yes, I do like the basic idea, too. Common fodder for fantasy novels is the "market day" or local fair, etc. But I'm not sure how "noble" those would be. But the idea of a medieval fair or local festival itself is a really cool idea. The way it was proposed with NPC-based trading just seemed to undermine traders a bit. If you go with Tom's idea of using it as a way to facilitate PC traders communicating with each other, then that sounds like it may help them instead.
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Chenier

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Re: Expansion of the Tournament Model
« Reply #6: October 12, 2011, 05:46:46 AM »
Personally, I wouldn't care if they even got anything to do there, I'd love for everyone who can't currently attend tournaments to gain the ability to attend as spectators. I'm especially thinking about the tournament sponsor.
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Shizzle

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Re: Expansion of the Tournament Model
« Reply #7: October 12, 2011, 09:06:16 AM »
If we create a tournament-ish market event, I think we should indeed make sure that trading remains an oral occupation. Having NPC's automatically assign deals somehow would not be any improvement. And not encourage RP either.

I do think we should encorporate the trader's skill, though. Perhaps Traders with higher trader skill are able to place a bid before others?

Also, I must concur that we can doubt the idea of how 'noble' those local fairs would be. But then again, trading itself is already violating that line, I believe. Most medieval trading was done by a middle-class, something we lack in BM. (not saying we should add it in :))

Lastly, I even think adventurers could somehow find a place in those. Selling Unique Items to nobles, or common items to each other, perhaps? (but that's just a loose idea.)

Indirik

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Re: Expansion of the Tournament Model
« Reply #8: October 12, 2011, 12:39:40 PM »
Personally, I wouldn't care if they even got anything to do there, I'd love for everyone who can't currently attend tournaments to gain the ability to attend as spectators. I'm especially thinking about the tournament sponsor.
Tournament sponsors get all the tournament messages, and can send them. The only thing they miss is the "aftertour" turn. So you can consider yourself "at the tournament".
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Longmane

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Re: Expansion of the Tournament Model
« Reply #9: October 12, 2011, 01:29:08 PM »
Just a bit of brainstorming but how about having the market idea built around the premise of them being medieval charter annual fair thingy's like my town had, (heh and still does) as with them being officially sanctioned it would allow nobles be involved with them and not just ye oldie local peasants and traders.

NB Just a snippet from a thing about ours so folk know what kind of thing I'm trying to get over.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Introduction
'For Hugh son of Ralph. The King to his Bishops etc. greeting. Know ye that we have granted and by this our charter confirmed to our beloved and faithful Hugh son of Ralph, that he and his heirs for ever shall have free warren in all their demense lands of Elkesdon'.

So begins the charter which King Henry III granted to Hugh de Muskham on April 10th in the year 1252. The charter granted the lord of the manor and the townsfolk of Ilkeston the right to hold a market on the Thursday of every week and an annual two day fair on the Assumption of The blessed Virgin Mary in August.

As already mentioned, the original annual fair was granted in 1252 and was held during August. The ancient market place and church yard would have been witness to a colourful and noisy mixture of agricultural trading, street entertainments, peddlers and no doubt the gruesome spectacles of bear baiting, dog and cock fighting and the occasional public punishment of the odd local felon or two.

The Origins of the Market Place
Originally, along with the many religious festivals held throughout the year, the markets and fairs would have been held in the church yard: the village priest adding to his coffers the fees paid by traders for the privilege. As in every other town and village throughout the land, Ilkeston's early market traders would have outgrown the confines of the small church yard and would have required the establishment of larger and more permanent sites, though still close to the church.   
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Shizzle

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Re: Expansion of the Tournament Model
« Reply #10: October 12, 2011, 01:37:00 PM »
Note that protection from nobility was always of great importance for such fairs to be held. For instance, when the Lords of Champagne lost power to the french King, that also meant the end of the annual markets being held there.


vonGenf

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Re: Expansion of the Tournament Model
« Reply #11: October 12, 2011, 04:27:24 PM »
How about this: Markets have a reach, a distance. A trader can interact with any markets within reach. A market acts like a message channel, so all traders within reach of it can talk to each other. It also acts as an exchange, so they can not only chat, but also trade. Trading would become a lot more interactive.

Additionally, this would a "border town" feel to border towns; I assume most traders would stay on borders to be able to spot inter-realm opportunities, while bankers keep control on some intra-realm trading. I really like this.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Heq

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Re: Expansion of the Tournament Model
« Reply #12: October 18, 2011, 08:21:30 AM »
I gotta point out that if the new economy is going to go live any time in the near future this system will actually cause additional destabilizations which will make balancing the new economy more difficult.

Shizzle

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Re: Expansion of the Tournament Model
« Reply #13: October 18, 2011, 09:51:23 AM »
I gotta point out that if the new economy is going to go live any time in the near future this system will actually cause additional destabilizations which will make balancing the new economy more difficult.

Why?

If the new system does go live, all those new resources will need to be transferred between realms. A market could be the perfect vehicle for this (as opposed to the trade offers that we have now. Can you see yourself selling and buying 5 or 10 different resources using that system?)

Heq

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Re: Expansion of the Tournament Model
« Reply #14: October 23, 2011, 09:44:34 AM »
It's mostly a source of error issue.  If everything works out fine, that's great, but if there ends up being an issue, isolating the causal mechanic would get much more difficult.

Anytime any major project goes live there are always hiccups, thus one should be brought up and stabilized and then the other brought up.  IMO, the New Economy does much more for traders then markets do, so I'd bring that up first and see how it shakes down for a month or so before even considering bringing something else live.  I suspect the New Economy would bring more to the trader game then the Tourneys as well as having more overflow into general conflict-causing.