Summon and Control

[Zakilevo]

So when you summon a creature, what PL do you need to control the creature?

If I have summoned a creature with PL of lets say 30, do I need a control spell with 30 to control the beast? I know I need some kind of a spell to control the creature. Since Tom stated summoning spells just summon and do nothing else.

[Nathan]

I think it's the effect level that you need. So if you have a summon with effect 3, you need a control of effect 3 or more to control it. 3 would be able to give it suggestions and it might do them. 4 would mean (almost) full control of it. Which means without a ritual, you can't properly control an effect 5 summon (which is fair enough, that's a fairly powerful beast).

[Anarki_Hunter]

I would like to take an example;

Summon - Dynamis' Primal Beast

The last line in the spell description mentions ->

....Attempts to influence the control of the summoner over the beast cause the offending caster great mental anguish and pain.

So, I would think that the above summon cannot be controlled.

[Indirik]

Part of that spell makes no sense:

The beast is capable of disrupting basic spells it is the target of and twisting their energies back upon the caster as a Mana Spear.

Given how the magic system works, that's impossible. With no "magic" base, you cannot, in any way, use magic to affect magic.

As for the control thing, I think you are misreading the statement.
"Attempts to influence the control of the summoner over the beast..."

In other words: Alice summons the creature. If Bob tries to use a spell to break Alice's control, or otherwise tries to cause the creature to go against Alice's will, then Bob will suffer "great mental anguish and pain". The description could have been written a bit more clearly.

[Halden]

Isn't this spell somewhat broken in that it is a summon spell and a control spell at once.

Once summoned it obeys the commands of only the summoner.

Does this mean that it starts out under the control of the summoner, or that only the summoner can control it, but it will still require a separate spell?

[Zakilevo]

Many spells (maybe most) need to be reworked. Once we are clear on the concepts, Tom will reset all the spells. As Tom said before, we do not want to rework on the spells more than once.

[Tom]

Many spells (maybe most) need to be reworked. Once we are clear on the concepts, Tom will reset all the spells. As Tom said before, we do not want to rework on the spells more than once.

Exactly. That's why this is moving so slowly, but still waiting for your input and insights.