"Fair" aspect of takovers

[Solari]

regardless of the hatred issue, having 1 unit of B TO a region of C with the help of an allied army of A... is that a good thing, if it's indeed possible?

It's not possible.  What is possible (as Anaris described) would be for Realm B to take a region from Realm A and then give it away to Realm C.  Why anyone would do that—since it would take weeks of time and effort—is another question.  There really isn't a reason to it since Hatred doesn't do what many people thought it did.  If you want to keep people from taking over your regions, that's why we have a Diplomat subclass.

[Stue (DC)]

i'm surprised that if you are member of dev team make such statements easily.

it is possible, proven and witnessed and even practiced - one single troop can take the region with support of allied troops.

practiced means i did it myself once long time ago, witnessed means that happened few weeks or month ago.

as regards to effects of hatred, of course, i can only make assumptions, such kind of witnessing is not possible, but i still believe (assumtpion again) there is some effect - loyalty and morale hold better when hated enemy is looting, or something like that.

i already saw realm destroyed by hated enemy and no region could be taken without destroying most of population, in range of two thirds to four fifths (approximations, of course). and, as far as i remember, there is some wiki mention of it.

these are my observations, but if devs know that hatred has no effects, than it would better fit thread "punishments" when you receive nothing but sorrow when using some options.

however, if it is clearly confirmed that hatred does not make any kind of such effect, than i believe the whole this discussion is hardly relevant.

the issue of taking regions with tiny or micro- army + ally help remains, but that can always be solved by disallowing smaller army to initiate takeover, if gods decide so.

[Anaris]

It's not possible.

Taking a region with a single unit is most certainly possible, even without any allied assistance.  It depends on sympathy and population, of course, like always.  I don't know offhand the rate of exchange on allied assistance, but I'm 95% sure it doesn't count for starting TOs, just maintaining them.

these are my observations, but if devs know that hatred has no effects, than it would better fit thread "punishments" when you receive nothing but sorrow when using some options.

It's true, and ever since I learned about this, I thought it seemed odd.  I have always suspected that more was intended for Hatred, but it never got implemented.  Never got around to asking Tom, though, and there's a good chance he wouldn't remember anyway.

Either way, Hatred as it exists now won't exist under the new diplomacy system that's coming, and anything we implement to replace it will be less confusing and more effective.

[Solari]

The question as asked was whether one realm could somehow takeover a region of another realm on behalf of their friend.  Is this correct?  If the question was instead "can a single unit TO a region", the answer is yes.  The reason my answer would seem ludicrous is because it *would* be a ludicrous answer to that question.

And Stue, the reason nobody likes answering your questions is that you can't help but work in some kind of denigrating statement or personal attack.  Compounding the problem is that you're usually wrong in your assumptions.  Don't be a dick, especially if it turns out to be a simple communication mistake.

[Stue (DC)]

you are dick and moderator who encourages such behavior is much worse dick.

you apparently feel that you own both this forum and game as well, such miserable behavior would not be tolerated in place with minimum of civilized manners.

[Anaris]

you are dick and moderator who encourages such behavior is much worse dick.

you apparently feel that you own both this forum and game as well, such miserable behavior would not be tolerated in place with minimum of civilized manners.

He's not a moderator, only a member of the dev team. 

And the only miserable behaviour or lack of manners here has been yours.  You frequently come here not to ask simple, honest questions to clarify the way things work, but to demand that something be changed so that your personal assumptions about the game can be made the truth, and your side in whatever conflict you're currently losing can gain the upper hand.

If you are trying to do something in the game, and it is not working out, the reasonable, polite thing to do is not to come to the forums and claim loudly (and with a total lack of proper capitalization) that everything is bugged, and the game is rigged against you.  It is certainly not to berate the members of the development team when they try to give you polite, reasonable answers.  However, this is what you have done, again and again.

[Solari]

you are dick and moderator who encourages such behavior is much worse dick.

you apparently feel that you own both this forum and game as well, such miserable behavior would not be tolerated in place with minimum of civilized manners.

I am very sorry that you feel this way.  It doesn't change my opinion (elaborated upon by Anaris so artfully), but I will try harder to avoid offending your delicate sensibilities in the future.

[Chaotrance13]

you are dick and moderator who encourages such behavior is much worse dick.

you apparently feel that you own both this forum and game as well, such miserable behavior would not be tolerated in place with minimum of civilized manners.

It really does not help your case when you call members of the Dev Team "dicks". You should count your lucky stars that you haven't been given a vacation from the forums for that kind of remark. I'm pretty damn sure the Dev Team members, as well as the Magistrates and Testers (and anyone else I've missed) do not volunteer their time to be insulted.

Anaris/Tim is right on this one. You've done this multiple times, and frankly I think you need a time-out. But that is not my call for I'm just a player, not a moderator or anything special.

[Stue (DC)]

i don't know whether you pretend that you are deaf and blind, so you don't want to see that i was just reacting to primitive talk this guy initiates, or you believe that dev team members are allowed to behave like that, while the other forum members are not.

[De-Legro]

i don't know whether you pretend that you are deaf and blind, so you don't want to see that i was just reacting to primitive talk this guy initiates, or you believe that dev team members are allowed to behave like that, while the other forum members are not.

Even if I believed this was the case, which I don't. Their game, their forum their rules. Don't like it, go find a game to play that you do like. See how simple it is, nobody in this game, including the Devs owe you a single thing.

 From almost your very first post you have been demanding, obstinate and aggressive towards anyone that doesn't share your view on the game. At first I was willing to believe it was simply a language barrier, but it became clear when you were unable to even consider that someone might have a different experience of the game then you that this was not the case.

[Ramiel]

Come now, only Anaris is bitchy and then usually with good reason - it does make good reading.

Solari aint like that.


You trying to bait them certainly will not help matters nor change their answer.

Devs = Word is Law when concerning the Game. Only Tom could even overrule them, and I am certain he wont if someone starts insulting his Devs, who are volunteers as far as I understand it, who works damn hard to keep the game working as smoothly as possible.

Stue, you need to separate your characters from the player and take it easy. You asked your question, Anaris gave you the answer from Dev and Code point of view - accept it and move on.

[Stue (DC)]

He's not a moderator, only a member of the dev team. 

And the only miserable behaviour or lack of manners here has been yours.  You frequently come here not to ask simple, honest questions to clarify the way things work, but to demand that something be changed so that your personal assumptions about the game can be made the truth, and your side in whatever conflict you're currently losing can gain the upper hand.

If you are trying to do something in the game, and it is not working out, the reasonable, polite thing to do is not to come to the forums and claim loudly (and with a total lack of proper capitalization) that everything is bugged, and the game is rigged against you.  It is certainly not to berate the members of the development team when they try to give you polite, reasonable answers.  However, this is what you have done, again and again.

it is miserable from your side that you are trying to endorse his primitive behavior, while at the same time attacking on me for reacting to his primitive behavior.

that is not my language, what anyone can see from my post, but this kind i made exception as the only means of protest for tolerating such attitude.

at the very beginning on this post i asked those who are obsessed with personal attacks to move somewhere else, but again what should be discussion about the game ends with some always the same guys attacking me directly, personally, unrelated to any discussion.

judging people's characters and valuing people, as you are doing is ultimately arrogant and presents lack of common manners. people in discussions confront their opinions, and trying to devalue others personality is the way to prevent any discussion, is the way of violence, verbal or any other.

therefore, i will not response to your judgments by judging you.

naturally, i am really sick of seeing this, rude and aggressive approach of few people is apparently trying to take dominance on this forum by sheer force.

as long as i believe it is tom who owns the game, i will still have some hope for the game itself, but for this forum while situation is like this, any effort is apparent waste of time.

[Indirik]

*locked*

I think we've pretty much gotten past the point of getting anything useful out of this thread...