Author Topic: Rebellion in Arcachon  (Read 10160 times)

Zakilevo

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Re: Rebellion in Arcachon
« Reply #15: November 19, 2011, 09:16:28 PM »
Yeah we are lacking the support of people without any unit. I think we will start another rebellion fairly quickly.

While both sides won't back down until Arcaea conquers both.

Heq

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Re: Rebellion in Arcachon
« Reply #16: November 19, 2011, 09:53:19 PM »
If there is one thing history proves it's that conquering Arcachon is really, really hard.  Okay, it's not actually that hard if you really think about it, but IC I think only Ciann has figured out how to pull it off and she's not telling.  Not yet anyway.

Zakilevo

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Re: Rebellion in Arcachon
« Reply #17: November 19, 2011, 10:20:43 PM »
I think this rebellion is actually my best one yet. Had really bad ones before but this one is still going and getting more interesting as it progresses.

De-Legro

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Re: Rebellion in Arcachon
« Reply #18: November 20, 2011, 02:48:39 AM »
If there is one thing history proves it's that conquering Arcachon is really, really hard.  Okay, it's not actually that hard if you really think about it, but IC I think only Ciann has figured out how to pull it off and she's not telling.  Not yet anyway.

You are kidding yourself. The trick isn't figuring out how to conquer Arcachon, like most things in BM the trick is getting the team together to do it.
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Bedwyr

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Re: Rebellion in Arcachon
« Reply #19: November 20, 2011, 06:33:01 AM »
Soniel makes it difficult, and the long travel times do awful things to equipment.  The rebellions certainly make life easier though, and not just in the obvious ways.
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Zakilevo

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Re: Rebellion in Arcachon
« Reply #20: November 20, 2011, 06:36:27 AM »
Velax might cook something up.

Bedwyr

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Re: Rebellion in Arcachon
« Reply #21: November 20, 2011, 06:37:56 AM »
There are many, many things cooking at the moment.  Some of them might even work.
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Zakilevo

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Re: Rebellion in Arcachon
« Reply #22: November 20, 2011, 06:39:56 AM »
I am sure Arcaea will make things much much enjoyable. I am starting to really like FEI. EC is getting somewhat dull.

Bedwyr

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Re: Rebellion in Arcachon
« Reply #23: November 20, 2011, 06:48:54 AM »
I have it on good authority that southern EC is about to heat up again.  And if I have my way, FEI will get far more interesting.  And if I don't have my way, then FEI will probably get very interesting as well in a whole other way.
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here!"

Heq

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Re: Rebellion in Arcachon
« Reply #24: November 20, 2011, 08:32:02 AM »
De-Legro,  Not so much really.  If you do things efficiently you usually need a -lot- less nobles.  You're right if people are going to "Blob of Doom" their way around, but why do that when you can drive people bannanas and leave the ole blobbers sitting and starving.

Tactics get people to care too, because they stop being just another foot soldier and have missions and goals.  I mean, yes, you need a couple fo good marshals, but otherwise it's a self-feeding system.

De-Legro

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Re: Rebellion in Arcachon
« Reply #25: November 20, 2011, 09:26:45 AM »
De-Legro,  Not so much really.  If you do things efficiently you usually need a -lot- less nobles.  You're right if people are going to "Blob of Doom" their way around, but why do that when you can drive people bannanas and leave the ole blobbers sitting and starving.

Tactics get people to care too, because they stop being just another foot soldier and have missions and goals.  I mean, yes, you need a couple fo good marshals, but otherwise it's a self-feeding system.

More or less nobles, you still need a group willing to go along with the plan. You act like finding a couple of good marshals is somethings simple, I've known realms that would do almost anything for one good marshal, and these weren't small realms. People resort to blob of doom because it can work even when you realm lacks talent and/or activity levels.

But otherwise think about it this way, you are playing a game with lots of experienced players, and a fair few tactically quiet clever people. The idea that a single player in the game is the only person that has arrived at a winning tactic is quite ludicrous.
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Bedwyr

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Re: Rebellion in Arcachon
« Reply #26: November 20, 2011, 06:48:17 PM »
De-Legro,  Not so much really.  If you do things efficiently you usually need a -lot- less nobles.  You're right if people are going to "Blob of Doom" their way around, but why do that when you can drive people bannanas and leave the ole blobbers sitting and starving.

Tactics get people to care too, because they stop being just another foot soldier and have missions and goals.  I mean, yes, you need a couple fo good marshals, but otherwise it's a self-feeding system.

You misunderstand us, I think.  We're not saying Arcachon wasn't using excellent tactics.  We're saying that Arcaea can't use those tactics.

Soniel makes a huge difference, in allowing repairs right before departure, in a fortified landing that's nigh-impossible to breach if fully defended, and in forcing Arcaea to go the long way through Ecsetuah.

What also makes a large difference is that Arcachon is a single duchy, and thus everyone gets all their taxes in gold even at the borders.  Your clock starts ticking from when you leave Soniel.  Arcaea's clock starts ticking the moment they leave Remton.

What makes possibly the biggest difference is a significant amount of apathy in Arcaea, and having people who routinely drop out of marching order, requiring us to spend much longer to get anywhere with a concentrated force.

To give an example of how all that works together...On the last campaign, Arcaea attacked Mnalor and lost.  That happened because we weren't going to be getting enough reinforcements to make a difference (less than active nobles), we'd lost significantly on the march (starvation via the longer route up to Ecsetuah, serious equipment damage on the travel from Akanos, nobles who miscalculated their gold and lost their units, took longer because people kept falling behind), couldn't move to Soniel (fortified and easily accessible from Mnalor), and couldn't wait much longer because the gold in Ecsetuah had been exhausted and our units were at the bleeding edge of equipment damage (88% damage after Mnalor, for instance).

The geographic and other realities severely limit the number of tactics Arcaea has access to...And Jenred's pesky sense of honour limits what's left considerably by refusing to use the more damaging looting options.

There are, certainly, other tactics Arcaea could use...But most of them require us to have an army that can move at least as fast as Arcachons, which doesn't seem likely.  The only remaining strategies that I could see was, essentially, attrition and treachery, both of which have proven useful, if not nearly as quick as I would like.
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Heq

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Re: Rebellion in Arcachon
« Reply #27: November 20, 2011, 09:25:03 PM »
Or you could pin people in place.  A small group can draw much larger groups merely by threatening areas, because blobbers want to dominate battlefields.  As long as you're okay with losing some people on occassion, multiple fronts can allow for a hell-for leather opening.

Sure, you'll lose all the troops that rush the gap, but who cares (if you're Arcaea)?

During that time thier clock is running and your clock isn't, though Clocks only run if you think of armies as blobs rather then cycling groups.  Anyway, I just know how it would likely run from the Arcachon end with the players reverse, but I will point out you can't object with both "Bah, we need better marhsals" and "We have thought of every tactic you lot of thought of, because we have awesome marshals."

Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Rebellion in Arcachon
« Reply #28: November 20, 2011, 10:23:19 PM »
Except there isn't another front to open against Arcachon...

De-Legro

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Re: Rebellion in Arcachon
« Reply #29: November 21, 2011, 12:57:11 AM »
Or you could pin people in place.  A small group can draw much larger groups merely by threatening areas, because blobbers want to dominate battlefields.  As long as you're okay with losing some people on occassion, multiple fronts can allow for a hell-for leather opening.

Sure, you'll lose all the troops that rush the gap, but who cares (if you're Arcaea)?

During that time thier clock is running and your clock isn't, though Clocks only run if you think of armies as blobs rather then cycling groups.  Anyway, I just know how it would likely run from the Arcachon end with the players reverse, but I will point out you can't object with both "Bah, we need better marhsals" and "We have thought of every tactic you lot of thought of, because we have awesome marshals."

Why would we need excellent marshals to think of tactics? I'm quite good at tactics myself though most of my training was for RL armies it is often applicable. I make a pretty terrible marshal due to my activity times and because of my characters RP attitudes.

If you recall much earlier in the war I did run a little raid group into Arcachon and lead a chase for a little while. One of the problems was with the geography of Arcachon it is quite easy for the defenders to box in raid groups, thus the raid group must be large enough that Arcachon can't afford to split their armies to catch you, which of course leads to the fact that you are probably now removing quite a sizable portion of our active nobles from the armies in order to go raiding, which limits how effectively the armies can capitalise on the effects of the raid anyway. Arcaea actually isn't too bad at running their armies as separate groups, you may recall we had to do it quite a bit while we fought wars on both borders.

But you pretty much hit the nail on the head as to why your "superior" tactics for Arcaea aren't applicable, they rely on the activity and abilities of the current Arcachon group. Arcaea currently has a player group with different strengths and weaknesses, and thus needs to utilise tactics applicable to that. Its sort of similar to saying an army from say Australia should approach a tactical situation in the same way as an American army. its just not going to work.
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