Marshal formation

[Longmane]

It depends what you consider seniority,  as while believing should only be available once a marshals reached a certain H/P threshold, in order represent the respect needed of their troops leaders to bring it about,  I certainly don't think needs be overly high.

[Foundation]

It depends what you consider seniority,  as while believing should only be available once a marshals reached a certain H/P threshold, in order represent the respect needed of their troops leaders to bring it about,  I certainly don't think needs be overly high.

Indeed, H/P thresholds are usually not that high, and if you follow an army around for a few campaigns you'll easily satisfy most requirements.

Though in this case, Marshal Formations are already tied to leadership, and we should probably keep it that way, even if to just remember that the leadership skill has *some* use.

[Solari]

Indeed, H/P thresholds are usually not that high, and if you follow an army around for a few campaigns you'll easily satisfy most requirements.

Though in this case, Marshal Formations are already tied to leadership, and we should probably keep it that way, even if to just remember that the leadership skill has *some* use.

Amen!  I think I'm the only person I know who has access to all formations.  Leadership should be taught in schools!  Leadership = Management potential. 

[Foundation]

If this was irc I'd type "/me also has all the options for one of his chars".

[De-Legro]

Amen!  I think I'm the only person I know who has access to all formations.  Leadership should be taught in schools!  Leadership = Management potential. 

Really? Both my military characters have access to all the formations, and they aren't even particularly old or dedicated to advancing leadership.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

I wonder if in all the available settings there exists at least one that allows staggering of archer lines to optimize range.

[Bedwyr]

http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Formation

[Longmane]

Indeed, H/P thresholds are usually not that high, and if you follow an army around for a few campaigns you'll easily satisfy most requirements.

Though in this case, Marshal Formations are already tied to leadership, and we should probably keep it that way, even if to just remember that the leadership skill has *some* use.

I agree it on all counts, as not only is it relatively easy for your char to reach any required H/P thresholds by campaigning etc, but doing so also allows "yourself" gain the RL experience of how best to deploy armies in battle etc.

The most simple and practical solution, and one that could only be argued against by those who wave the equality for all banner, (in other words want every feature available to their chars right from the off) would be to have the custom settings option added as the one a marshal gains after attaining the last of the others.

[cjnodell]

I think that it would not necessarily have to be an on/off thing. Perhaps how much can be specified in a custom formation could gradually increase as the required traits increase. For example, it may be possible for an inexperienced Marshal to set starting position in general based on unit type but nothing else. If might be possible for an experienced Marshal to set all possible settings including detailed starting positions (unit type, range, or even specific units).

Also, even if inexperienced Marshals had access to all possible settings in the "Formation Builder," an inexperienced player's formations would likely prove less effective than those designed by an experienced player. Besides, I am sure that history is full of inexperienced military leaders that proved to be prodigies in their field.

Just food for thought!

[Longmane]

Although an inexperienced Marshal has only a very limited amount of "designated" command settings at his/her disposal to start with, just as even the most experienced Marshal did to begin with,  they also have the option as Marshal of their army to have it use any custom settings he/she wants simply by ordering it, as that's a big part of what being in commands all about.

On the point of simply giving "official" custom command settings to a marshal early on, even using a sliding scale, I'm dead against it, as not only would it risk unbalancing things, ie a relatively very inexperienced Marshal could have options that almost mimic the advanced commands settings available to time served Marshals, thereby negating the advantage they offer to their army and realm etc, (and likewise sticking in the craw) but being such a potentially powerful option, as overrides a troops leaders own commands, you could end up with the most ludicrous battles ensuing due to their inexperience.

[Indirik]

The only thing that an "experienced" marshal has over a newbie marshal is the Leadership skill. If you train Leadership at the academy, you could easily have full access to all marshal settings for the instant you are appointed as marshal. Which is really the whole point of academy training. So there's no reason to toss the whole idea out the window.

What you can do is tie the implementation of these formations into the leadership skill rating.
* Higher leadership: + chance of success
* Very high leadership: ++ chance of success

* Specifying more options = - chance of success
* Specifying "overrides" for noble units settings (formation, encounter reactions, etc.) = -- chance of failure

Put all this together and calculate a chance to successfully implement a formation. If you fail, the consequences could range from nobles just lining up according to their personal settings, to being +/1 a line, depending on how badly you failed.

For an Epic Fail, when a newbie marshal tries to use a super-complex setting with lots of overrides, you could even assign completely random lines to each individual noble on that side. 

And you can even tie in the number of available custom formations to the leadership skill. One custom formation stored per 20% skill?

[Indirik]

...but being such a potentially powerful option, as overrides a troops leaders own commands, you could end up with the most ludicrous battles ensuing due to their inexperience.

Also, we don't protect people from their own incompetence. It's the sponsor's job to make sure they appoint marshals who know what they're doing.

[Solari]

Also, we don't protect people from their own incompetence. It's the sponsor's job to make sure they appoint marshals who know what they're doing.

Quoted for Truth

[Longmane]

The only thing that an "experienced" marshal has over a newbie marshal is the Leadership skill. If you train Leadership at the academy, you could easily have full access to all marshal settings for the instant you are appointed as marshal. Which is really the whole point of academy training. So there's no reason to toss the whole idea out the window.

Surly adding "game mechanics wise" betwixt  "newbie marshal" and "is the leadership skill, would have been more accurate, as while you can train "Leadership" par-say at an academy you can only ever really "learn" by experience 

Everything else sounds rather interesting to bounce about though, as could end up with some very dire or indeed amusing things happening on an epic fail.   

[Foundation]

I do agree with Rob that leadership should stay, but I believe that implementing chance will only make most marshals forgo the Marshal Settings and rely on personal settings, since it'll be more reliable, thus we get back to the current system.

I think that having *more* control is the desired separator, but what constitutes more control is difficult to say, as on one end we have no marshal settings and on the other we have full customization of every type of unit and their settings.