Author Topic: Pepper Spray IS a vegetable!  (Read 7439 times)

DoctorHarte

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Pepper Spray IS a vegetable!
« Topic Start: November 23, 2011, 10:01:12 PM »
Just wanted to say, US Congress has declared Pepper Spray to be a vegetable, but I can't seem to find it at the super-market..  ???
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 11:07:23 PM by DoctorHarte »
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Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Pepper Spray IS a vegetable!
« Reply #1: November 23, 2011, 10:40:16 PM »
It's amazing they find the time to do all this. Considering we have a massive debt, the conflict in Afghanistan (along with helping set up a stable government there), the recent revolution in Libya we helped support, and so on, I'm amazed they find the time to do such important work as figuring out whether pepper spray is a vegetable...

Shizzle

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Re: Pepper Spray IS a vegetable!
« Reply #2: November 24, 2011, 12:17:24 AM »
Morons...

Norrel

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Re: Pepper Spray IS a vegetable!
« Reply #3: November 24, 2011, 12:17:53 AM »
It's amazing they find the time to do all this. Considering we have a massive debt, the conflict in Afghanistan (along with helping set up a stable government there), the recent revolution in Libya we helped support, and so on, I'm amazed they find the time to do such important work as figuring out whether pepper spray is a vegetable...
psst
its a joke

Chenier

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Re: Pepper Spray IS a vegetable!
« Reply #4: November 24, 2011, 12:50:43 AM »
It's amazing they find the time to do all this. Considering we have a massive debt, the conflict in Afghanistan (along with helping set up a stable government there), the recent revolution in Libya we helped support, and so on, I'm amazed they find the time to do such important work as figuring out whether pepper spray is a vegetable...

Considering the Republicans aren't even open to the slightest form of compromise, I think that if they actually debated such things, it'd actually be a better use of their time. ;)

De-Legro

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Re: Pepper Spray IS a vegetable!
« Reply #5: November 24, 2011, 12:56:25 AM »
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Chenier

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Re: Pepper Spray IS a vegetable!
« Reply #6: November 24, 2011, 01:15:25 AM »

Vellos

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Re: Pepper Spray IS a vegetable!
« Reply #7: November 24, 2011, 04:52:11 AM »
Just wanted to say, US Congress has declared Pepper Spray to be a vegetable, but I can't seem to find it at the super-market..  ???

Meh. The crowd-control concentration of pepper spray that US cops use is pretty nasty stuff (been sprayed with it myself once), but hardly some great atrocity. Even in the UC Davis incident, the cops appear, from most accounts of the incident, to have attempted to peacefully remove the protesters several times, and only to have used pepper spray after protesters refused to vacate the space. IMHO, protestors do not have a right to obstruct a public service or good (such as a road, a walkway, or a park) unless that specific public service or good is identifiably and directly connected to an active and ongoing injustice (such as lunch counters in the 1960's). Protesting by obstructing a sidewalk in a college town that is overwhelmingly liberal anyways is just childish.

Compromise would possibly allow the current government to actually DO something, which may make them look effective and thus increase their chances of re-election. The opposition here in Australia is doing the same thing, constant negativity and blocking every piece of legislation they can, all on the premise of "holding the government to task and making sure they are accountable" when it is obvious to anyone that can think the reason is purely to hamstring the government to increase their own chance at election. Sure some policies are bad and need to be opposed, but it has gotten to the stage where the opposition party will cripple the country, so long as they are confident they can shift the blame to an "ineffective" government.

That's one interpretation. I actually have an increasingly positive outlook on the matter. The reason is that I don't think politicians are idiots. Evil, maybe, but not dumb.

Most politicians recognize that budgets eventually need balancing. Most politicians recognize that there is no way to balance the budget without some kind of political suicide, especially in a nation where the electorate is extremely radical and polar. In such an environment, "compromise" will create primary challenges that result in MORE radical representatives being elected, and MORE protracted stalemate. Thus the optimal strategy for representatives seeking the "best interests of the nation" is to create situations wherein budgets can be balanced without any party (or possibly the other party) being viewed as the group that "did it," whether "it" is tax increases or spending cuts.

That is, with things like the supercommittee and last-minute brinskmanship and apocalyptic deal-making, representatives can make some kind of cut without having to take full political blame, meaning that electorates won't hold them as accountable for disagreeable or uncomfortable policy positions, meaning that they won't elect even more intractable candidates.

Think about it. The supercommittee failing triggered huge spending cuts and a (slightly) more balanced budget, composed almost entirely of spending cuts (the remainder being a few technical points and interest deductions), apparently a Republican "victory." Yet it is evidently a politically costly one, but one that also fulfilled something most people know is true but that is political suicide: the Pentagon's budget needs to go on the chopping block.

Somehow, without compromise, a compromise position happened. Conservative Republicans prevented tax increases, which is apparently the end-all-beat-all of their policy platform, and Liberal Democrats basically got to slash somewhere between $400 and $600 billion from the Pentagon's budget.

Brinksmanship and multi-tiered commitment mechanics with major consequences are a reasonable practice in a political environment where passionate activists un-interested in political necessity (or national welfare?) coincide with competent, ideologically committed but moderate representatives of the electorate, who do care for national welfare.
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Chenier

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Re: Pepper Spray IS a vegetable!
« Reply #8: November 24, 2011, 05:05:25 AM »

Vellos

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Re: Pepper Spray IS a vegetable!
« Reply #9: November 24, 2011, 05:32:56 AM »
"A neutral humanism is either a pedantic artifice or a prologue to the inhuman." - George Steiner

De-Legro

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Re: Pepper Spray IS a vegetable!
« Reply #10: November 24, 2011, 06:10:18 AM »
It doesn't take a genius to realize that going bankrupt is bad, but compromise gets you killed by your voters... so you've got to find a way to not go bankrupt without compromising. Answer? A deadly game of brinksmanship. Both sides have nukes, and at least some on both side are probably willing to use them (i.e. let the nation collapse). But through a series of careful aggressions, proxy wars, periodic detente, and political exhaustion, the issue can be resolved. Compromise would be optimal, but compromise leaves you to open to attack.

The world is my prisoner's dilemma.

I think that most politicians have at least some notion, however misguided, that they are acting, ultimately, for the good of the nation. Not all, but most.

I guess one of my main problems with this is that all they do is perpetuate the situation where such actions are necessary, that is if I am even willing to buy into the notion that it is a round about way of accomplishing something, which I'm not entirely convinced of, and certainly isn't the case in the Australian system.

The end result is that such actions are constantly required, meaning the compromise result may be satisfactory but not optimal, and take far longer to arrive at which in many situations only results in the end compromise needed to be sufficient to dig you out of an even bigger hole. Look at the debt crisis in Europe, had nations like Greece been willing to take austerity measures MONTHS ago when other nations first started pushing for it, then would they need to be making such serious cuts now?
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egamma

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Re: Pepper Spray IS a vegetable!
« Reply #11: November 24, 2011, 07:34:27 AM »
The main problem with the American system of government is the two-party system, which is reinforced at pretty much all levels of government by winner-take-all systems. A proportional voting system would ideally produce 4 or more political parties, each with less than 30% of the votes, and political parties will have to at least get one other party to go along with whatever they're proposing.

Zakilevo

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Re: Pepper Spray IS a vegetable!
« Reply #12: November 24, 2011, 08:22:04 AM »
Vote for Ron Paul!

I think Congress also decided to put Pizza as a vegetable as well. The reason behind it was because people are trying to make kids eat more vegetables and Congress thought why not put Pizza into the vegetable family so schools can continuously supply kids with Pizza. They are not helping Americans with their obesity problem.

Silverhawk

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Re: Pepper Spray IS a vegetable!
« Reply #13: November 24, 2011, 08:46:27 AM »
If I am right, then tomato paste was declared a vegtable by congress for school lunches. But as european I don't pay much attention to the news on the other side of the ocean so I might be wrong.
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Chenier

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Re: Pepper Spray IS a vegetable!
« Reply #14: November 24, 2011, 09:32:06 AM »