Author Topic: Crown's Total Income  (Read 17444 times)

De-Legro

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Re: Crown's Total Income
« Reply #45: December 07, 2011, 05:37:06 AM »
Yep, 5000.

You said:
"Its because the banks are not public and are owned by powerful banking families that we have all this hassle."

Which, aside from being basically false, I assumed, perhaps wrongly, to be based on the same intellectual foundations that saw groups like the Rothschilds as some type of international bankers' conspiracy. And "banking families," in most populist circles at least in the US, is often a reference to Jews. Especially when combined with theories of global geopolitical gerrymandering leading to aggressive wars to enforce a specific financial objective (in your case you identified alternative monetary regimes). Perhaps I misconstrued you. If so, it will be the first time I have personally had a discussion with a person who was politically vocal about international conspiracies of banking families controlling nations who was not also some variation of racist or anti-Semite.

Then again, I am probably oversensitive right now, as the class for which I wrote that paper is a class in European history from 1914-1945.... so the question of racism is kind of on the forefront of my mind. If I have misconstrued your position, and you would like to provide evidence of an international conspiracy of international banking families (who are not Jews) manipulating governments into wars or corrupt policies, I would be glad to hear it. I had no desire to impute beliefs on you which you did not have, and if I have done so, I do apologize.

I do find it funny that you say you aren't prejudiced, then identify at least 2 prejudices.

And I guess you don't object to the "paranoid" ad hominem?

(sorry-- a side tangent in my research, which my advisor told me to drop in my paper, was about interlocking directorates and structures in WWI European finance, and a tangent from that led me to all sorts of exciting anti-Semitic conspiracy theories)

Could be a UK thing. We don't have any banking "families" down here in Australia that I know about, but if someone WAS to talk about Banking Families I would assume they were having a go at the supposed international Jewish Conspiracy.
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Vellos

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Re: Crown's Total Income
« Reply #46: December 07, 2011, 05:47:00 AM »
Could be a UK thing. We don't have any banking "families" down here in Australia that I know about, but if someone WAS to talk about Banking Families I would assume they were having a go at the supposed international Jewish Conspiracy.

Indeed, that was my assumption as well.
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Lefanis

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Re: Crown's Total Income
« Reply #47: December 07, 2011, 11:13:33 AM »
You just contradicted yourself.

Fiat money creates the desire and need for "more and more".... but the denarius... wasn't fiat money? (though, in a sense, the seigniorage is a fiat-ish return for the government as it ultimately derives from legal factors).


Depends on how you look at fiat money. The denarius didn't start out as fiat money, as it was initially almost pure silver. However, as the roman emperors began reducing the amount of silver in it, the denarius lost its intrisic value, and it's value Was expected to reflect the amount of silver it had once contained. So I stand by my statement that the denarius did become one of the earliest examples of fiat money.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 11:41:25 AM by Lefanis »
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Re: Crown's Total Income
« Reply #48: December 07, 2011, 03:29:33 PM »
Just because you yanks like to be anti-semitic and/or racist when it comes to politics and money, doesnt mean that the rest of the world is...

In Britain, if I was racist, I would have to be racist against myself since the British Nazi Party... oh sorry the British National Party, lay the claim that anyone not of pure Briton blood (which is an impossibility. After all we have Saxon, Viking, Celtic, all provinces of the Roman Empire, French, Norman, Spanish, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, German blood in our "racial" blood. There is no 'Pure Briton' that died out when the Romans invaded and then everyone else invaded) is a foreigner and so open to be discriminated against racially. Now since my mother is Portuguese and I consider myself of dual nationality, being racist would be silly.  Now if you want to try and say I am anti-skin colour, I would just say no. Whats the point? We are ALL descended from the African peoples after all. Yes that includes those of Asian and European descent. Every human in existence is descended from the African people, it is where the human race began for crying out loud (I do not subscribe to the BNP's view that at the same time there was a tribe of already white ice-man people living in the glaciers covering Britain. I consider the idea absurd and recommend that the BNP go back to school and get educated).

Also I do not consider the Jewish people to be 'a race' just like I do not consider the British people to be 'a race'. Jewish people are a religious group. A lot of them are in the Country of Israel. A lot of them are not, I personally know one ex-military Jewish guy who now lives in Kiwi land (New Zealand*) he is a great guy and when last we spoke had a new boyfriend and was very happy.

Just because the descendants of the american rebels like to be racist, doesnt mean the rest of the world is. Heck we brits can give it a go but we just cant live up to the yank standard.

Here is Britain being racist:
Yank - American
Kiwi - New Zealander
Ozzie - Austrailian
Sheep Sh**gers - Welsh
Incest Land - Cornwall (think its more of a Devon v Cornwall thing though a few other counties also hold the same joke)
Canuk - Canadian
Frog - French
Scum of the Earth - refers to Bankers, Politicians and Lawyers (popular opinion) Lawyers also known as Blood-Suckers.
Scouser - Liverpool or around there, or anyone who speaks with that stupid crappy accent (Mainly we in the south use it)
Chav - Council House and Violent (Dictionary defination) or anyone who wears those sorts of clothes and speak in a stupid form of slang including saying 'init' 'bruv' 'blood' 'ya get me blood?' etc etc. Usually idiots who try to start fights.
Damned Immigrants - Anyone who comes to our country from anywhere in the world and merely seeks to live off benefits (IE those that do not work, fake illness to not work and otherwise just get every single benefit that anyone has heard of)
Damned Leechers - As Damned immigrants but those who were already in the country/born here.
Pig, Bacon - Police Officer (mainly used by Chavs)

As you can see, we can try but we ultimately fail.

Other than those terms, we generally think of all scots as being an excellent drinking contest. But even then we really just cannot pull it off.

So again, just because it might be the american way of thinking - do not presume the whole world thinks that way. By banking families we refer to anyone who has a major stake in a bank and usually the person who actually owns a bank.



Oh another thing to laugh about in reference to the BNP - I think they use HSBC as their bank. HSBC being the Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation! I mean the BNP really do fail as being the racist political party - they cant even discriminate correctly!

Hmmm I guess I could say that mostly in Britain we would live the BNP to be deported somewhere else... damn Human Rights laws...
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Shenron

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Re: Crown's Total Income
« Reply #49: December 07, 2011, 04:31:48 PM »
Just because you yanks like to be anti-semitic and/or racist when it comes to politics and money, doesnt mean that the rest of the world is...

Look I'll admit I have no idea what your post was getting at, but personally I hate seeing "anti-semitic" being thrown around much more than actual racism itself. It's just so !@#$ing annoying.
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Tom

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Re: Crown's Total Income
« Reply #50: December 07, 2011, 04:49:03 PM »
Could we all get back on topic, please? Thank you.

Vellos

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Re: Crown's Total Income
« Reply #51: December 07, 2011, 04:55:35 PM »
Depends on how you look at fiat money. The denarius didn't start out as fiat money, as it was initially almost pure silver. However, as the roman emperors began reducing the amount of silver in it, the denarius lost its intrisic value, and it's value Was expected to reflect the amount of silver it had once contained. So I stand by my statement that the denarius did become one of the earliest examples of fiat money.

Devaluation does not a fiat make.

From Wikipedia: "Fiat money is money that derives its value from government regulation or law. The term derives from the Latin fiat, meaning "let it be done", as such money is established by government decree."

The denarius never derived its value because of any declaration by the Roman government, except maybe under Diocletian's attempted price reforms, which was sort of an attempt at indirect fiat-ization. When the silver value went down, merchants figured it out pretty fast (and specie volume rose, which pretty directly creates inflation in such an economy), and changed prices to adjust for that fact.

Not fiat. Denarii are commodity money. Not fiat. They never derived a major share of their value from any type of legal tender or government guarantee effect. I don't have a dataset on hand to compare the purchasing power of a denarius vs. an equivalent sum of silver, but I suspect the denarius had only a very slight advantage, and that probably not a fiat effect, but rather a "commonly understood means of exchange" effect, to make up a term on the fly.
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Vellos

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Re: Crown's Total Income
« Reply #52: December 07, 2011, 04:56:30 PM »
Could we all get back on topic, please? Thank you.

Oh. Err... right.

Crown's total income. Way too high. 8-day tax periods. Mysterious apparitions of thousands of gold.
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Zakilevo

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Re: Crown's Total Income
« Reply #53: December 07, 2011, 08:10:44 PM »
It might be happening due to the fact all the extra incomes being focused on one person. In the old system, the extra incomes were distributed among other government positions but now the crown is the only one who takes it?

Indirik

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Re: Crown's Total Income
« Reply #54: December 07, 2011, 08:35:05 PM »
@Zakilevo: But where do those thousands come from? With no more property/wealth taxes, the only sources are from: Paused characters and fines.  I can't remember the last time that Astrum fined someone. And definitely not in the range of thousands of gold per week. And we haven't had that many paused characters. So.... where?
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Zakilevo

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Re: Crown's Total Income
« Reply #55: December 07, 2011, 08:41:02 PM »
Hmmm... forgot we don't have property tax anymore... crap... Oh well free gold is better than negative balance.

Vellos

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Re: Crown's Total Income
« Reply #56: December 07, 2011, 10:46:18 PM »
Hmmm... forgot we don't have property tax anymore... crap... Oh well free gold is better than negative balance.

But my character receiving 2500 gold seems like a pretty large bug.

We'll see if it's fixed in the next tax.
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De-Legro

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Re: Crown's Total Income
« Reply #57: December 07, 2011, 11:44:38 PM »
Hmmm... forgot we don't have property tax anymore... crap... Oh well free gold is better than negative balance.

Not if you are at war and you just realised the realm you are fighting is getting thousands of extra gold every tax, while your returns from this bug are significantly less.
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Tom

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Re: Crown's Total Income
« Reply #58: December 08, 2011, 12:50:02 AM »
Not if you are at war and you just realised the realm you are fighting is getting thousands of extra gold every tax, while your returns from this bug are significantly less.

Yes, but I don't manually intervene for bugs that affect everyone. I could never make a fair fix anyways.

De-Legro

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Re: Crown's Total Income
« Reply #59: December 08, 2011, 01:33:15 AM »
Yes, but I don't manually intervene for bugs that affect everyone. I could never make a fair fix anyways.


Completely agree, bugs happen every can work around them. Even if a realm was destroyed who could say the bug was the only reason?
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