Author Topic: BM culture  (Read 43974 times)

Solari

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BM culture
« Topic Start: December 04, 2011, 03:38:32 PM »
I have my own thoughts on this, but it's Sunday morning and I'd rather just get the ball rolling first.  Several people have made the observation that there is a disconnect between the culture of older and newer players.  That got me thinking about the different aspects of BM culture.  Things which have been mentioned before are things like PvP vs. team-based play, conceptions of IC and OOC, and trust and civility issues. 

My questions: do real differences exist along these lines?  If so, what are some of the commonly-observed causes?  More importantly, does BM have a generalized culture and if so, (how) do we want to promote and protect it?

Why I'm asking: I've noticed a lot of rudeness IC lately.  Just plain dickishness, really.  There are ways to write that do not involve insulting the players around you and creating a generally unhealthy environment.  Again, perhaps this is a personal preference, but it does appear that there is enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that there are very large camps on both sides of the issues mentioned at the top.

Comments, please!

JPierreD

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Re: BM culture
« Reply #1: December 04, 2011, 03:56:43 PM »
I have seen that from rather old players, though not to an exaggerate level. Only saw the major accusations I suppose you are talking about through the forums. It is on the culture of each group.

I have always been of the theory that you've got to make it visible that being a dick to another player is /not/ accepted. For that some warnings, followed by some bolts should things not change, would be very useful. Nobody is forced to love someone else, but they are to respect them. If you cannot keep a minimum level of decency with someone, it means you really hate him, and then the game is no longer a healthy environment. Move along or quit it, else you destroy everyone's game.

Of course, there are several levels of bad behavior, but if we start tolerating small things, they usually escalate into larger ones. There is one thing that has been bothering me for quite a while, and it is the explicit rivalry between players in this same forum. Attached to it there are several comments, some bordering trolling, which just go without anyone saying anything about it. I am rather new to the game, haven't been for a year yet, so I don't feel trying to change the established culture would be wise (or effective, for that matter). But I still don't feel comfortable with such bickering. I don't care if this realm is lame, or if that player is a crybaby/delusional fool. If someone says he is frustrated or annoyed by someone else's behavior, then it's good, because it shows he is attempting to dialogue and have things change. If he says the other player is an idiot, then he is just starting a violent conflict, and given that we cannot actually kill or hurt each other enough to solve the conflict (yes, violence was very useful for solving conflicts, and still is in other environments), nor we want to be in that situation, then we have to employ other methods.

I'm also not interested in starting a witch hunt, on who said what to who. If there could be an agreement that no more trolling-bordering comments, followed by a gentle remark when someone does it, I think it would do the forum first and the game latter a great good. This is at least my preference, someone is bound to be stimulated by this conflicts and enjoy them (thus not wanting to change such culture).
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Tom

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Re: BM culture
« Reply #2: December 04, 2011, 04:48:45 PM »
One remark:

A culture, by necessity, needs to cover everything. That especially includes both in-game conversations and the forum.


Crescent

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Re: BM culture
« Reply #3: December 04, 2011, 07:00:38 PM »
If you asked me, I would say that there may be a different in aims of old and new players, not so much of their cultures. Put simply, a new player who comes in would want to excel in this game, some would go so far as to try to dominate and win the game. An impossibility, of course. Older players were once new players with that same mindset initially but that has changed to a more sustaining type of gameplay rather than ambitious. That is simply all there is to it. The rest is just simply two sides trying to fight for their own standpoint. Some players simply like stability whilst others love action.

Valast

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Re: BM culture
« Reply #4: December 04, 2011, 07:29:53 PM »
Bak when I waza kid... wont no new fangled com puttn machine to do our game playin for us... whipper snapper...

Is the difference of experiences players vs energetic youngsters any different in game then it is in the real world?

songqu88@gmail.com

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Re: BM culture
« Reply #5: December 04, 2011, 07:38:41 PM »
I ain't here for nothing more than doing my own thing, see. Just keep trucking it along. And fried chicken tastes good, even if people keep vulgaritizing me, cause none of y'all can defeat the might of the fried chicken.

Arundel

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Re: BM culture
« Reply #6: December 04, 2011, 09:46:55 PM »
I would agree, to be rude out of necessity makes for a very unhealthy environment because it promotes others to do the same.  But to the contrary, being rude for a reason is quite realistic in terms of atmosphere. If a decision is made or a noble is acting against my interests, then I'll most certainly express my character's emotions. Nobles just do not agree on every term, for them to dispute and "jest" with words is perfectly acceptable. I should not be forced to act nice, play nice, or write nice, but perhaps we could use more subtlety in doing so, (along with a little more respect.)

Directly to your question, I believe Crescent sums it up quite nicely. New players enter the world ambitious, wanting to experience what Battlemaster has to offer. The old players, usually, have experienced a good portion of it and settle into a more "sustaining" play-type, as Crescent said. To preserve or protect one culture would mean the extermination of the other, and quite frankly, I believe both cultures work together seamlessly.
 
The adherents of different religions in a realm should compete for power, influence, and fresh converts. They don't even have to be killing each other to do so. I wish people promoted the prosperity of their religions the same way they promoted the growth and prosperity of their realms. - Geronus

Jens Namtrah

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Re: BM culture
« Reply #7: December 04, 2011, 10:13:27 PM »

Why I'm asking: I've noticed a lot of rudeness IC lately.  Just plain dickishness, really.  There are ways to write that do not involve insulting the players around you and creating a generally unhealthy environment.


You may be discussing something specific I'm not aware of, but generally speaking I think this is largely due to the way the players in the game treat dueling.

Typical scenario: Character 1 acts like a dick, is challenged to a duel, and then makes stupid excuses ("you have no honor/my duty to the realm/blah blah blah") and the rest of the game simply allows it.

If you are challenged to a duel and you avoid it, you ought to be branded a coward and doors shut in your face. (then it becomes a matter of that chars political strength, but let's stay in a general sense). This way, dueling acts like the deterrent it was meant to be - don't want to be killed in a duel, best watch your language.

Norrel

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Re: BM culture
« Reply #8: December 04, 2011, 10:25:53 PM »
If you are challenged to a duel and you avoid it, you ought to be branded a coward and doors shut in your face. (then it becomes a matter of that chars political strength, but let's stay in a general sense). This way, dueling acts like the deterrent it was meant to be - don't want to be killed in a duel, best watch your language.
This is the best solution by far. It means people will only be dicks either if they can afford to do so, or if the thing they want to be dickish about is important. 
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JPierreD

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Re: BM culture
« Reply #9: December 04, 2011, 10:41:58 PM »
This is the best solution by far. It means people will only be dicks either if they can afford to do so, or if the thing they want to be dickish about is important.

It would allow for infils, former advies and players who trained swordsmanship to be dickish. It has its benefits and its problems. Not really the solution I'd give.
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Jens Namtrah

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Re: BM culture
« Reply #10: December 04, 2011, 10:48:12 PM »
It would allow for infils, former advies and players who trained swordsmanship to be dickish. It has its benefits and its problems. Not really the solution I'd give.

By infils, if you mean they can't duel, I never accept that as an in-game excuse.

As for others being dickish because of good swordsmanship skills, I guess that's just unfortunately a bit of real life. However, my experience has been that those players aren't usually the dicks, it is usually newer players or guys who have been around forever but hardly ever trained.

Shizzle

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Re: BM culture
« Reply #11: December 04, 2011, 11:12:11 PM »
I really think the duelling only scrapes the surface. Usually I find the mentality rather healthy in BM, tough every now and then I meet a scumbag :) Sometimes 'politics' also seem to revolve around no more than medievalistic flamewars and trolling. Not that I can fully excuse myself from that :)

Perth

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Re: BM culture
« Reply #12: December 05, 2011, 04:11:45 AM »
I have no idea what anyone is talking about here. It's just a bunch of vague references to random stuff.

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egamma

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Re: BM culture
« Reply #13: December 05, 2011, 04:37:24 AM »
There's only one player IG that I can't stand. Are there a few characters that I don't particularly agree with? Sure. But only 1 player since 2007 that I really can't stand. In an environment the size of BM, I think that's doing pretty good.

Now, on the forums, there are a few more that I've butted heads with--forums seem to bring that out in me, and probably in others. There isn't any dueling in the forums, no bans, no fines, no reason for anyone to treat anyone else nicely. Perhaps more active moderation--48 hour lockouts perhaps--would help keep the trolling down.

Chenier

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Re: BM culture
« Reply #14: December 05, 2011, 06:47:13 AM »
There's only one player IG that I can't stand. Are there a few characters that I don't particularly agree with? Sure. But only 1 player since 2007 that I really can't stand. In an environment the size of BM, I think that's doing pretty good.

Now, on the forums, there are a few more that I've butted heads with--forums seem to bring that out in me, and probably in others. There isn't any dueling in the forums, no bans, no fines, no reason for anyone to treat anyone else nicely. Perhaps more active moderation--48 hour lockouts perhaps--would help keep the trolling down.

I don't think it's trolling, though. People aren't arguing for the "lulz". They do it because they are genuinely annoyed.
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