BattleMaster > Dwilight

Zuma/Daimons

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Vellos:

--- Quote from: De-Legro on February 09, 2012, 01:24:21 AM ---Zuma Masters don't lie, that is part of why the forgery worked.

--- End quote ---

.... what is this referencing? I wasn't talking about the forgery. I was talking about a recent message to Garret where I, the player of Hireshmont, phrased the message as a pun on how the Zuma GM phrases messages to others. I did it partly because I want those connected with the Zuma (the Zuma GM and Artemesia) to OOCly start to understand how frustrating it is to work with them, also because I was hoping it would provoke an interesting RP where I could learn about the Zuma (the Zuma GM has opted to respond with RPs where said Zuma Triunists are summarily executed without much explanation; and OOC saying that I'm RPing something that, as I understand it, cannot exist: I apparently didn't play Zumamaster long enough to know that 99% conversion rates aren't high enough to have a couple Zuma monks; I guess you need a perfect 100%?).


--- Quote from: De-Legro on February 09, 2012, 01:24:21 AM ---In that context I can't see there being huge issues between multiple GM's about what was promised to whom, unless someone wants to break the background for the Zuma. This has always been in my mind one of the biggest problems with multiple GM's. Either they work together so well you'd never even know there was multiples, or you get GM's running off and doing their own thing to the point it is detrimental to the culture.

The Zuma currently work because the GM we have can be relied upon to follow Tom's guidelines to the letter. Very few people are willing to invest what amounts to several hours each and every day to chafe under the restriction this imposes when they have so much BETTER ideas if only we ignore this instruction here, or that piece of background there.

--- End quote ---

See... I don't buy that. I'm partially curious to know how you know that the Zuma GM has perfectly followed all of Tom's guidelines to the letter. I'm also curious to know how you have such faith that Tom's guidelines are perfect or optimal. Neither of these things seem obvious.

But even aside from that, I have a hard time believing that there is only ever one valid Zuma response to a human action. That is, without knowing Tom's guidelines (maybe he really has created some vast matrix of Action-->Response info), I suspect that any human action has numerous theoretically possible responses within the "rules" for Zuma. Of that set, there is probably another set of responses greater than 1 within those rules that also meet some arbitrary definition of "fun." Of that set, there is probably another set of responses greater than 1 that could be simultaneously implemented by different daimons that would be "non-contradictory" or at least not oppositional.

Not knowing Tom's guidelines, I can't say this with certainty. But most rules I can imagine would allow for the above to be true. Which reveals the use of more, possibly non-identical, probably cognitively separate daimons (read: another GM, or more than 1 more). Because there may be multiple responses that can be pursued simultaneously by different agents, but which would be harder to pursue in good faith for one person, for any number of reasons.

De-Legro:

--- Quote from: Vellos on February 09, 2012, 04:23:09 AM ---.... what is this referencing? I wasn't talking about the forgery. I was talking about a recent message to Garret where I, the player of Hireshmont, phrased the message as a pun on how the Zuma GM phrases messages to others. I did it partly because I want those connected with the Zuma (the Zuma GM and Artemesia) to OOCly start to understand how frustrating it is to work with them, also because I was hoping it would provoke an interesting RP where I could learn about the Zuma (the Zuma GM has opted to respond with RPs where said Zuma Triunists are summarily executed without much explanation; and OOC saying that I'm RPing something that, as I understand it, cannot exist: I apparently didn't play Zumamaster long enough to know that 99% conversion rates aren't high enough to have a couple Zuma monks; I guess you need a perfect 100%?).


--- End quote ---

Perhaps the issue here is less that their are Zuma Triunuist and more that the Masters feel that adopting the position of monk is tantamount to abandoning their duties to the masters. The last view RP's I've had with the Zuma Humans implies that everything revolves around doing their duty. So long as they are not lax in that duty they seem to have a fair bit of leeway.

Zuma GM:

--- Quote from: Vellos on February 09, 2012, 12:28:22 AM ---Ah yes, and Garret... forwarded his seeing of the monks? Because that was clearly a message written down on paper that he could forward to Haktoo.

He copied and pasted a *roleplay*. Haktoo knows that humans lie and knows that Garret has misrepresented things in the past. Haktoo never even saw those monks. When I realized that you were going to go ahead and assume knowledge of them, I went ahead and made them present for Swift Claw. The original intent was for you the GM to see what was going on, but not for Haktoo ICly to "know." But I guess I assumed more restraint than was present.

--- End quote ---

I am not getting involved with the other debates as it seems that no matter what I say, unless I agree completely with everything you say, that it will be wrong.

You make OOC assumptions about how things are done. How do you know how Garret passed on that information to me? How do you know how my characters then took that information?

You complain about the fact that the Daimons instantly know everything that is going on everywhere without trying to see if, IC, there is a way that such things could be justified. I have to deal with player characters that know almost instantly of things that have gone one nowhere near them, yet for me to be able to do things this way it is somehow unfair. No, I do not send multiple messages between all my characters, as has been said, I spend enough of my time on all this already.

I am not going to explain how things are done via the forums, some people have discovered this IC (by staying IC and not immediately complaining OOC how I must be abusing something somehow). This includes people within your own realm.

Dealing with you in an OOC manner is incredibly frustrating due to your attitude. So I will step in and correct things when people flat out lie (not necessarily intentionally, but perhaps due to them taking their assumptions about how something must have been done as fact), but I will not get involved with the debate on the way ahead as it just drains my interest and my time.

Indirik:
I'm going to call this thread done. Everyone has had a chance to say their part. We're just going in circles now. Any final decision on what to do with this issue will have to be taken by Tom and the ZumaGM.

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