Zuma/Daimons

[Indirik]

That pretty much sums it up. There have also been accusations leveled at Pian En Luries noble now. But it is getting to the point where it is wheels upon wheels, and what can directly be attributed to Terrance is becoming rather blurred. I don't know if the Zuma are acting on the Ultimatum to the SA, that would certainly be interesting.

FangFang and his troops of Mini FangFangs are up in the Mountain of Betrayal, headed in the general direction of Gaston on some sort of hunting trip.

[Velax]

Mini FangFangs

That's adorable.

[Shizzle]

That's adorable.

Even within a low-fantasy environment, I find names as FangFang rather ...rediculous. They wouldn't suit on BT, let alone on an SMA island, where we aspire to take things more seriously?

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Dunno what *you* would call a...dragon...(?)

[Geronus]

Arguably there mere existence means they are MEANT to change what you consider the "essence" of BM. After all this is Dwilight, the whole island was created to be something other then the standard BM game. The fact that the Zuma are player driven is entirely relevant. Terrance has been able to have the effect he has, because the realms surrounding the Zuma have never managed to build a relationship with them that would have prevented it.

So many people are so scared of offending them, that you all leave yourselves open to someone willing to risk it all. Would the Zuma have acted as they did if they had an established relationship with Terran that would have given them pause in believing Terrance's forgery? No single players interaction with the Zuma happens in isolation.

Has anyone really stopped to think that maybe in Toms plans, the Zuma ARE Dwilight and form a integral part of its existence? Perhaps you were never meant to have the option to decline them, its not like you get to pick and choose every aspect of this game.

All of which is irrelevant to the point I'm making. That point is, again, that the very presence of the Zuma stifles and limits player versus player conflict and plot development in the southwest. The argument that the Zuma react only to player stimulus would be relevant if I was arguing that they are inconsistent, unpredictable or otherwise arbitrary in their actions, but I'm not. I'm saying that it doesn't matter what they're doing or why they're doing it, the mere fact of their presence creates a plot sink.

Also, regarding player evaluations of what it's like dealing with the Zuma and whether doing so is fun and interesting or not, I am far more inclined to give weight to the opinions of the people who, by dint of proximity, are subjected to the limiting factors they create. Therefore what people like Chenier, Vellos and Glaumring have to say, who have all actually had to deal with the presence of the Zuma day in and day out for years, takes on a bit more weight in my mind than the opinion of someone who thinks the idea of the Zuma is really cool but hasn't ever had to deal with them consistently in game. Apart from Artemesia, I don't think I've heard anything good about the Zuma from anyone who plays in Terran, D'Hara, Barca, or Asylon. Shouldn't that say something?

[songqu88@gmail.com]

I really don't want to be the bad guy and cite rules, but here's the deal, which has in fact been stated on the wiki by Tom.

You do not have the right to play where you want.

You don't like how there's a supposed "plot sink" in close proximity to the Zuma? Dude, open your eyes (unless you're blind, in which case BM accomodates for that) and look at the Dwilight map. Are you looking? Look at it! It's HUGE! Like, seriously, are you saying you cannot find one single place on that HUGE area of land that you can play in? Blah blah about IC sense and such. Ok, so your current character is stuck there. You're not forced to play that guy. But even so, you still do not have the right to play where you want. You feel like staying in Terran/Asylon/Barca/D'Hara? That's your CHOICE. No one says you have to, furthermore, it is even said that you do not have the right to. So if you don't like it, then leave. No one is obligated to keep you there, and while there are efforts to make it fun, if you are convinced that it's not enough, then go look for better places where you can satisfy your high standards of "fun".

And the next point: If you think ALL of Dwilight can be so affected by the Zuma that your entire Dwilight experience is ruined...Well, got some new for you: You ain't entitled to Dwilight anyway. So if you don't like the continent, then go play somewhere else. You're part of something bigger than yourself. There will be people like you who will complain, who don't like what's happening. There will also be people who like what's happening. There will be people who don't care either way. There are a LOT of different players, and the result is, if YOU don't like it, then get a bunch of similar people and do something useful about it (Forum bitching isn't considered useful generally, I'd know lololol). Otherwise, just play like the rest of us. Or, if you think it's really so bad, then just leave the continent. There are six continents, and only two of them have any GM-controlled NPCs currently. You have 4 continents to choose from, and the maximum number of characters anyone can have is 5, with the maximum characters in a single continent 2 (Except a weird case which I won't get into here). So that means if you really really really hate Dwilight and really really don't like daimons, then even if you donated (Which would also suggest that you don't hate the game itself) then you'd have at most 5 characters to split among your choice of AT, EC, Col, and FEI. And those continents most certainly do not have any "superpowerful daimons". If you fail there, then that's purely your failure.

And thus, the conclusion is very simple: You think you can't deal with it? Then leave.

[Glaumring the Fox]

So why didnt Terran Barca and Asylon get to choose like Morek Madina an the luries? Can we get a dev to move our kingdoms to the. Safe east continent so we can actually play the game?

[Scarlett]

I thought the point of this thread was simply to have players express their opinions about the Zuma. I don't see any harm in that, and I've learned quite a bit from several of the criticisms and some of the defense.

I don't see anybody claiming 'I donated, I demand that we get rid of the Zuma' and I don't see any reason for the consistent ad hominem attacks you are making. You are speaking as though you have some kind of special authority or understanding of the rules. As far as I can tell, you are a not even especially old player who feels entitled to troll the forum because you don't like some of the other players.

I've always enjoyed the realms I've been in with guys like Lyman and the Apasurian player whose name escapes me, but your collective contribution to BM appears to be the proverbial poop in the pool, both in game and out. What on earth do you get out of it?

[songqu88@gmail.com]

lol, no one told you to colonize those regions. You did that of your own accord. The original four (well, technically 6, including the Zuma and rogue) were just because, you know, you have to start somewhere. And none of them were anywhere near the Zuma. The closest, Madina, would still have about a week one way. And remember the beginning of Dwilight, there was a freaking black fog over the western lands.

No, you guys CHOSE, on your own, of your own free will, to settle in the west. No one said you had to. No one forced you to. Now that you find that maybe you don't like the consequences of your own decisions, you attempt to escape. That's quite childish and stupid. You are where you are due to the actions and decisions made by your fellow human players. Accept that fact first and foremost.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Im the Apasurian....

[songqu88@gmail.com]

I thought the point of this thread was simply to have players express their opinions about the Zuma. I don't see any harm in that, and I've learned quite a bit from several of the criticisms and some of the defense.

I don't see anybody claiming 'I donated, I demand that we get rid of the Zuma' and I don't see any reason for the consistent ad hominem attacks you are making. You are speaking as though you have some kind of special authority or understanding of the rules. As far as I can tell, you are a not even especially old player who feels entitled to troll the forum because you don't like some of the other players.

I've always enjoyed the realms I've been in with guys like Lyman and the Apasurian player whose name escapes me, but your collective contribution to BM appears to be the proverbial poop in the pool, both in game and out. What on earth do you get out of it?

le sigh? If you don't believe me, then you can just ask about the whole "Right to play where you want" deal.

And I couldn't care less what you think of me. Have I ever? Should be evident from my posts. Occasionally I will take a stance as strong as the ones some people take. It's er, how you say..."lolworthy"?

Besides, I'm not always wrong, and not everything I post has absolutely no value. The way I present them, now there, sure. But hey, I'm hardly the worst of the bunch.

[Scarlett]

I guess my point is that I don't see anyone other than you talking about 'rights to play where you want' or anything like it. All you are doing is bludgeoning some of BM's best players over the head with rules they already know and aren't complaining about as if you were a parent explaining them to a child.

It isn't that I don't believe you. It's that what you're saying isn't relevant and the tone you're using isn't appropriate for BM noobs, much less some of the oldest and best players left around after all these years. You aren't 'taking a stand,' you're just being a jerk and muddying what should and could be a useful discussion of the role of GM plots in the game.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Its because he has a good thing going and doesnt want his power busted up. He is the voice of the most powerful army on Dwilight. And he didnt have to fight tooth and claw for the realm he now lives in. Because he was booted from the human player realms.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

The relevance only comes when people persist in saying stuff like how they shouldn't have to deal with inconvenient stuff that is close to their realms, when said inconveniences have existed long before they ever got there, and no one told them that they had to go there.

To me, that's like someone seeing a house built on a faultline, refusing to buy insurance, and later crying about how their house got destroyed in an earthquake.

Or it's like someone reading the Surgeon General's warning that cigarettes cause cancer, then lighting up three packs a day for twenty years, then complaining about how he has lung cancer.

Or it's like a pregnant lady who decides to down some apple martinis and later complains that her kid has a messed up face.

The straight up facts were all there since the very beginning. In choosing to do what you did anyway, you inherently accept responsibility for the consequences of your choices.

The way I'm seeing it right now, some people just can't seem to accept responsibility. And that IS childlike.

[Scarlett]

Okay, I get it. Maybe you're right that players are just griping because their characters and their characters' realms are having a hard time.  I do play in Terran but I haven't been there long and don't have a stake in it as a player. You know more than I do about that side of things.

That's still not license to be a jerk about it, so please either find a way to express what you are saying like a decent human being, or don't post.