Zuma/Daimons

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Okay, I get it. Maybe you're right that players are just griping because their characters and their characters' realms are having a hard time.  I do play in Terran but I haven't been there long and don't have a stake in it as a player. You know more than I do about that side of things.

That's still not license to be a jerk about it, so please either find a way to express what you are saying like a decent human being, or don't post.

Doesn't stop other people. Treat others like...meh, golden rule #3.

I don't care to take !@#$, and I will dish out what I care to. Spew poo poo, expect poo poo back. Yeah, it's definitely not nice most of the time. You may have noticed that my tone progressively got a lot more volatile following a subtle trend in the thread in general. I just happen to be a lot more flammable sometimes.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Basically it comes down to this, we were happy with the Zuma being a benign force that was in its lands and we could interact with them as we chose, lately the Zuma have become the only voice in the west and its GM led and its ran by one guy as the Ambassador, now thats fine. It was great the Zuma said they wanted certain lands and we all agreed that we would set up our kingdoms there and wouldnt cross the line into Zuma lands and take land. As far as I know know no one intentionally crossed the line. Like Barca had no clue that Eregon was linked to the Zuman lands. No one knew and now all of a sudden the Zuma are pissed about all these kingdoms that long ago all agreed would not cross the green line. None of which did. And now the Zuma are taking land and breaking treaties, because well "we just dont understand the Zuma cuz we're dumb humans" . It seems as if the Zuman rules changed lately, it seems as if whatever they were originally meant to be has been twisted and now we are finding out that the players in Dwilight have and always had to take a backseat to the Zuma, because they were here first. So is Dwilight a place that cultivates PVP and player to player interactions or is it merely a map set up for the Gm's and the player was an after thought? Should we have left the west continent and played merely on the east or just stayed in Bel where we knew the rules of the game?

[Vellos]

FWIW - This is incorrect. They cannot, and did not do this. They merely slipped by you without anyone noticing the actual path they took.

But Hireshmont claimed IC that they flew over the river, and Brance believes him, because he doesn't know that the Zuma can't do that.

Really? That's weird. Because neither we nor Asylon got any reports of "enemy troops are entering your region." Did they region hop... like, 3 regions?

They can hop rivers if they're like Beluaterra daimons.

[^ban^]

Really? That's weird. Because neither we nor Asylon got any reports of "enemy troops are entering your region." Did they region hop... like, 3 regions?

No.

They can hop rivers if they're like Beluaterra daimons.

No, they can't.

[Vellos]

BM is largely player driven, and from my point of view, which due to circumstances and OOC relationships I have with some of the players of characters that HAVE managed to pierce some of the Zuma puzzle is perhaps better informed then most,

Does it not bother you that your satisfaction with the Zuma is apparently at least partially based on privileged OOC knowledge you gained by long-term friendships with other players that not all players have access to? That would bother me.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Then how? Our entire army was in Vakreno fighting monsters, if the Daimons marched there it would have been wonderful to have the help, hell they could have cleared out a long line of 3000cs hordes from Kosht all the way up to Itaufield and put us ahead several months. My other guess is that perhaps Terran missed them entering 2 of their regions... And or the Daimons can tunnel under the lake and into rogue regions?

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Would it make you guys feel better if I said that there is some sort of purpose to the Zuma, that I don't have a clue what it is, but that it shouldn't bother any of you?

Take for example, your mortality. Everyone dies one day. Does that bother everyone? Some are, some aren't. Most of us don't live every day of our lives thinking about it. Fine, the Zuma are a bit more obvious. Ok...Then a terminal cancer patient. Not all of them succumb to their disease and just give up on living. Some do. Fine, if you want to do something like that, go for it. You won't get sympathy from me (Since contrary to a real disease, anything bad that happens to you in a game...doesn't affect your real life. And if it does, do consider finding professional help.)

If it's really not fun, then I find it interesting that NO ONE among those who say it's not fun (I'm looking at you Vellos, Glaumring, mainly). have yet proposed exactly what they would do differently and just how that would make it more fun.

Remember, it's a GM-controlled NPC faction. You'll have to propose your superior vision of how to handle the Zuma with that in mind. You can't make it into a human realm. You can't make it so that you can't recruit daimons. Basically, the starting scenario is: You are a GM given powers to recruit daimons. Your "realm" is an NPC realm with associated mechanics. You must now deal with the players.

Have at it and present your ideas then and don't forget to explain just why each part is clearly guaranteed to be superior to the existing situation.

[Vellos]

Y'all think you can do a better job? What, you mean talk a bunch to others?

Probably not. Because I don't know all the design details, I don't know how much of what I'm criticizing is the GM's behavior, Tom's design, or something else. I won't presume to know all the details.

Without revealing everything about how your faction works?

Yeah, because understanding that my opponent has to use gold to recruit practically guarantees I'm going to win a war with him.

Because you know, becoming a GM usually means you have a !@#$ton more restrictions than ever before, and I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to just out and say what you're here for. In fact I'm fairly certain the Zuma GM is not supposed to overtly state what the Zuma's purpose is.

Sounds plausible and reasonable. So maybe I'm not criticizing the GM, ultimately, but Tom.

And y'all can BS all you want right now about how you wouldn't think about roflstomping other realms.

No, I would totally rotflstomp every realm near the Zuma. And I would demand their absolute subservience, and launch my own crusades against any entity that criticized daimonic rule, and require that ambassadors come to meet me in my capital and take up residence there. I might demand concubines as well.

But I would be clear: I'm not doing this because of some mysterious purpose. I am doing this because I am powerful, you are not, and I live in a !@#$ing volcano. And I would be careful to overextend myself and leave plenty of vulnerabilities, and make lots of enemies, and alienate lots of people. In a sense, Arcane, in Vlaanderen, comes to mind.

This is why it's probably good I'm not a GM: and also why I don't think the Zuma should be on Dwilight. Because the reasonable course of action for the GM is one that is obviously not in keeping with what almost everyone perceives Dwilight to be about.

It would piss off a lot of people, but there's really nothing I know that's stopping him. That said, you really think you wouldn't ever be tempted to go rage?

If I knew why? Nah, I wouldn't be that upset. Go somewhere else, start over on a new continent. Losing doesn't bother me. I'd be fine with the Invasion succeeding on Beluaterra too; I kind of actually groan a bit whenever I hear there's a chance for victory.

Remember, it's a GM-controlled NPC faction. You'll have to propose your superior vision of how to handle the Zuma with that in mind. You can't make it into a human realm. You can't make it so that you can't recruit daimons. Basically, the starting scenario is: You are a GM given powers to recruit daimons. Your "realm" is an NPC realm with associated mechanics. You must now deal with the players.

That's bullcrap. I don't have to suggest a better GM-controlled NPC faction. I don't think there should be any GM-controlled NPC faction at all. If you want me to come up with stories of how the Zuma could be "wound down" so it's not just a "Poof! They're gone" type thing I can take a shot. But I don't think there should be a GM faction.

And besides, you're just changing the topic to get out of a hard spot.

[Vellos]

They do actually, but again you are looking at things from a HUMAN NOBLE perspective.

Which, for BM, is the one, the only, the exclusively acceptable perspective, unless you are playing a commoner.

[Vellos]

Has it occurred to any of you that the Zuma aren't aiming for Asylon, but instead passing through?  When a bus comes hurtling down the road and you happen to be in the way, it's not as though your skull was the destination.  It's going to keep on rolling.

I'm sure that's a great comfort to Asylon's players.

"No, Asylon, we're not even aiming for you. We don't even care about you. We just need to destroy you to get on with another part of our plot."

[Glaumring the Fox]

How can we propose changes without actually knowing anything about how the Daimons recruit or maintain huge armies in crappy land? Or how they travel or how many different Gm's control the Zuma? None of these questions would arise if the Daimons played by the same rules we do.

Here is my opinion, the Daimons are buying food to feed the human population and then they eat the humans and for some reason for every humans eaten they can recruit 10000cs. So basically if they humans around them want to do anything about the Zumans, they stop selling them food, oh but look they the Zumans still have thousands of humans to eat with the potential of gaining CS from each human, they already have a huge army so they just invade the lands around them with their massive armies gaining more CS from the humans they eat. Which brings me to the conclusion, whay cant we develop the same way to recruit as the Daimons?

[Vellos]

The relevance only comes when people persist in saying stuff like how they shouldn't have to deal with inconvenient stuff that is close to their realms, when said inconveniences have existed long before they ever got there, and no one told them that they had to go there.

Oh yeah, they've existed a long time. Yeah, Vates has been around forever; Haktoo has always been the Zuma ruler.

Oh wait.

And besides, I'm not saying we shouldn't have to deal with inconveniences. The Zuma are there. We will find a way to deal with them. The continent on the whole would be better if we didn't have to.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Perhaps a new Zuman tribe could arise in Balance retreat just below Morek and inbetween Pian en Luries land?!?! That would be awesome!

[Vellos]

No, they can't.

That's very odd.

You mean Zuma can't hop rivers, or daimons in general can't hop rivers? Because I'm almost 100% confident that it was observed a few times in Beluaterra during the last invasion.

[Vellos]

Multi-post FTW!

Sorry; this is what happens when you're 3 pages behind on a thread that you feel passionately about.