Zuma/Daimons

[egamma]

Letter from Flavia Constantia O'Duibheannaigh   (14 days, 21 hours ago)
Message sent to everyone in your realm (20 recipients)

....

Many things prompted me to do this, but first and foremost, is the Zuma; you will not know this but, I have been in talks with the Zuma Magnate Screamer in my lands of Twainwood, and he has relayed my pleas for the safety of our Republic in turn to the Potentate Haktoo, upon her Nightscree throne. I can tell you with great confidence that this invasion won't end with the handing over of the last unique weapons, Screamer made it clear that Barca was to appease the Zuma, and they failed, only managing to anger the Zuma further.

....

Screamer, in concordance with Haktoo, has declared that they want an end to this conflict, but cannot do so when they perceive so much "arrogance" and "disregard" from our current leaders, and so Screamer tasked me with enacting change in the Republic, so that we may have an end to bloodshed and war, and in stead, be reconciled. I have pleaded the case of our people and our republic, and they have listened, and Screamer halted the massacres occurring in Twainwood, if we are to survive, we must forge a new path in this world, and though our old government served us well in our years of colonial expansion, it is time for a new government to take form.

.....

Flavia Constantia O'Duibheannaigh
Senator of Twainwood

wouldn't this be the best forgery ever, if it could be pulled off?

[Galvez]

Letter from Garret Artemesia   (11 days, 23 hours ago)

In this case, it is not my responsibility to keep track of your nobles' actions or whereabouts. If you are asking about whether Flavia actually talked to the daimons, then I can tell you that she did. However I am not qualified to speak about the contents of her exchange.

@Indirik, Garret didn't wanted to verify Flavia's story. As always, a lot of things come out of his mouth, but nothing you want to hear or ask for. Also, I had no way of contacting the Zuman Lords myself.

@egamma, the letter I posted from Flavia is authentic.

[egamma]

@Indirik, Garret didn't wanted to verify Flavia's story. As always, a lot of things come out of his mouth, but nothing you want to hear or ask for. Also, I had no way of contacting the Zuman Lords myself.

@egamma, the letter I posted from Flavia is authentic.

Sure, but is she telling the truth? 

[Indirik]

@Indirik, Garret didn't wanted to verify Flavia's story. As always, a lot of things come out of his mouth, but nothing you want to hear or ask for. Also, I had no way of contacting the Zuman Lords myself.

That still doesn't make it proof that the Zuma made that demand. All you have is another player's IC claim that the Zuma threatened to destroy Barca unless she was elected. Seems to me to be a very clever IC play by a character to exploit the current situation in their bid for power. And, apparently, it worked. So Kudo's to Flavia!

I guess what I'm trying to get across here, is that before you get OOC mad at the ZumaGM for demanding that Flavia be elected or else Barca would be destroyed, that you consider the possibility that the Zuma did not actually make that demand at all. It is trivially easy for any character who has exclusive access to a Zuma daimon to claim that such a thing was actually demanded.

Making claims like this based on second-hand information is always problematic. You have no way of verifying the accuracy of the information. It is entirely possible that the player made up or twisted the information for their own purposes. This is the advantage/power that any ambassador holds, or anyone who deals with a foreign government. When you make OOC accusations against other players using this information, then you risk accusing them based on incorrect information. This  makes people angry when you accuse them of doing things they didn't do. Which, I think, is what happened a lot in this Zuma incident.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Well...Garret can't very well say what he is not qualified to proclaim, right? There was someone else from Barca who asked the same stuff to Garret as Julius did, maybe she was better at reading between the lines.

I guess I can explain a little about my very limited role in the Zuma. I am only a messenger. I transfer letters between the daimons and the humans. I won't say how much is copy+paste, since that's uh...metagaming or something?

About the Flavia thing: Like any good representative who is not supposed to place those he represents in potentially troublesome situations, Garret, I believe, said what he needed. He said, in a somewhat roundabout way typical of human diplomats (Oh believe me, Garret is definitely more direct than some of Dwilight's human mouths) what hinted along the lines of "The daimons are not meant to be kingmakers. Your choice what to believe." And like anyone who talks in public to humans, he pretty much said "I neither affirm nor deny..." Yeah...you've all heard that before. Annoying sometimes, but it might mean something. No one tried tricky ways to get Garret to slip though. o.O

Keyword here is choice, something I decided independently to make a recurring theme. There is always a choice. Sometimes it might, but actually more rarely than you might think, result in two choices between "Do this, or die". But even then, is it so bad to die, even if you die without knowing why? But then again, most of the time the other choice(s) do not involved actually being destroyed/dead/something so bad and terminal as that. I guess often the choices might be damning no matter which alternative you choose.

Maybe the moral is that you should pay a lot more attention to what your own nobles do than what the Zuma do.

[Galvez]

I guess what I'm trying to get across here, is that before you get OOC mad at the ZumaGM for demanding that Flavia be elected or else Barca would be destroyed, that you consider the possibility that the Zuma did not actually make that demand at all. It is trivially easy for any character who has exclusive access to a Zuma daimon to claim that such a thing was actually demanded.

You do not hear me saying that I blame the Zuma GM for this. From the moment Flavia said this I told her that there was no ground for her claims. And when I contacted Garret, he refused to confirm if the agreement we had changed due to the 'negotiations' of Flavia. And when an agreement has changed, I think the highest authority of the Republic of Barca deserves to know that. All I got out of Garret were cryptic phrases that made me assume that there was an agreement with Flavia I wasn't supposed to know of. To confirm this, the moment that Flavia was elected, the Zuma agreed to peace with Barca.

[Indirik]

My comment was not aimed solely, or even specifically, at you. (Which, I know, is odd because I posted in response to a post of yours that I quoted... Oh well.)

Another key point: Garret is not the Zuma. He is not privy to everything that happens in Zumaland. Possibly not even the majority of what happens in Zumaland. Most likely he only knows what the Zuma are willing to tell him. Which may or may not mean that he knows anything worthwhile or important to any particular situation. Many people have figured this out, and are taking steps to cut Garret out of the loop when it comes to important stuff. It will make some things more difficult, but will hopefully make other things easier.

[Galvez]

If you read the letters between us regarding this topic, you understand that Garret knew a lot more about the matter than he wanted to tell me.

[Indirik]

... I didn't say he was completely ignorant, did I? I just said he doesn't know everything. From what I've heard of the vague and mysterious way he talks, it wouldn't be hard to drop hints that would make you think he knew more than he wanted to admit.

But this is just some friendly OOC advice to help reduce your frustration levels. As with all advice, take it or not, at your discretion. After all, it's only worth what you paid for it.

[Galvez]

Well while I would love to continue my reign as Suffete, it does give some relief now I do not have the responsibilities as Suffete any more. And besides what has happened between the Zuma and Flavia, it worked for Barca. And it is something I can use against her later. My political career isn't over. Or as Schwarzenegger would say: "I'll be back!" 

[Indirik]

I do have to admit that that is one of the things I do like about republics. Any time you want, you can just stop running for election, and stop being ruler without feeling like you're giving up.

[egamma]

Well while I would love to continue my reign as Suffete, it does give some relief now I do not have the responsibilities as Suffete any more. And besides what has happened between the Zuma and Flavia, it worked for Barca. And it is something I can use against her later. My political career isn't over. Or as Schwarzenegger would say: "I'll be back!" 

Or as he said later, "My son will be back!"

[Galvez]

I do have to admit that that is one of the things I do like about republics. Any time you want, you can just stop running for election, and stop being ruler without feeling like you're giving up.

Indeed

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Something that people haven't figured out (Strangely enough) is that it's usually more...er...tame(?) to deal with a human than a daimon. Also you won't have to deal with the strangeness of incomprehensible daimons if you deal solely with another human. Common sense advice.

I found it ironic when there was someone talking about Garret's supposed job security, and how he exaggerates his importance, and then had his representative nearly eaten by a daimon. 

Ah well, enough about this on the forum from me. The important thing to remember is that Garret likes magic scrolls except for scrolls of banishment since that can be troublesome for him, and that I hate squirrels. If nothing else remember that my nemesis is the rodent.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Next shipment from Knyazes to the Zuma Ambassador... rats that have been plaguing our warehouses.