Zuma/Daimons

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Ever try saying "Sorry, almighty daimons. But we really didn't write that. Please believe us oh mighty daimons."

In Glaumring's case: Oh my, Haktoo and Garret both saw how you responded. You were all like "Hey, the treaty? Hello?" And that was a dead end. Should've noticed that.

I will once more repeat something I said before: Is it so hard to just say sorry? Even if you're not wrong, even if you think you have nothing to apologize for, when you deal with superiors just do it because it might make them a bit happier.

But I believe very few people have ever actually had the humility to say "Sorry, my mistake". Believe it or not, Garret has. I believe Flavia has as well.

[MaleMaldives]

Ever try saying "Sorry, almighty daimons. But we really didn't write that. Please believe us oh mighty daimons."

In Glaumring's case: Oh my, Haktoo and Garret both saw how you responded. You were all like "Hey, the treaty? Hello?" And that was a dead end. Should've noticed that.

I will once more repeat something I said before: Is it so hard to just say sorry? Even if you're not wrong, even if you think you have nothing to apologize for, when you deal with superiors just do it because it might make them a bit happier.

But I believe very few people have ever actually had the humility to say "Sorry, my mistake". Believe it or not, Garret has. I believe Flavia has as well.

Well i'm not in charge of that for my realm. But the players shouldn't have to do that for the GM's doing a bad job.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

ICly apologizing. Because, you know, sometimes things can be unfair. If you've lived life you'd know that quite well.

OOCly I don't decide what you care to do about your OOC complaints. Nor do I particularly care.

[Chenier]

We dont want to bother the Zuma, thats why we made Peace with them. We were happy with live and let live. Then we lost land to the Zuma, asked for its return, was told to shut up, and have basically been living in fear that the Zuma are going to come stomp the rest of our kingdom for some lame reason. We worked hard to build our kingdom, the Zuma probably not so much with their 35000cs army.

Indeed, that is all we want. "Live and let live". Used to care for the Zuma, wanted to be friends with them, etc, etc. But the poor response rate, erratic behaviour and unpredictable aggressiveness promoted the "let's just deal with them as little as possible" attitude. Perhaps it's intended. Perhaps it's realistic. It's still frustrating when we see others provoke them and have the Zuma hordes act like a swarm of moronic dupes that just want to bash everything like cavemen because they are not happy.

They don't emanate an aura of "mystical" or "alien". They emanate an aura of stupid. They were deceived, and how do they react? They do exactly what the deceivers wanted them to do. I don't care how many times you repeat the Zuma are "alien", that just translates as "stupid" in my book. And every "RP" waves around those events were lame half-assed excuses to justify the already lame behavior.

[MaleMaldives]

ICly apologizing. Because, you know, sometimes things can be unfair. If you've lived life you'd know that quite well.

OOCly I don't decide what you care to do about your OOC complaints. Nor do I particularly care.

Well aren't you the mature debater. If you don't care then don't bother messaging back.

If the GM's are doing a bad job and no one tells them then nothing would ever get fixed. It is just my opinion that they are in this particular case, and I don't think I have been doing it that rudely.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Glaumring had no reason to say sorry, he asked for land to be returned under the treaty and was told he was arrogant and the treaty they had sucked. If it happened in reverse and the Zuma asked I would have honoured the treaty unless we had a long history of animosity, we didnt in this case, so we feel bullied by the 35000cs on our borders. What can we even hope to do about it? Dwilight is for the players the map was set up with finite cities, to say just stay away from the zuma or live in Morek the whole game because its safer kills the adventure of Dwilight and the colonial expansions of a vast land.

[De-Legro]

Glaumring had no reason to say sorry, he asked for land to be returned under the treaty and was told he was arrogant and the treaty they had sucked. If it happened in reverse and the Zuma asked I would have honoured the treaty unless we had a long history of animosity, we didnt in this case, so we feel bullied by the 35000cs on our borders. What can we even hope to do about it? Dwilight is for the players the map was set up with finite cities, to say just stay away from the zuma or live in Morek the whole game because its safer kills the adventure of Dwilight and the colonial expansions of a vast land.

What would you do if Aurvandil did the same with their 25k army? Or all of SA realms insisted they no longer wished to honour the treaty and they had som 50k CS willing to settle the matter?

Think on this. We KNOW that the Zuma never used to field armies of this size. So there are two ways to think abou this. Did they always have the resources to and didn't bother. Or has something changed in the last 6 months or so that would have affected their resources?

[Glaumring the Fox]

What would you do if Aurvandil did the same with their 25k army? Or all of SA realms insisted they no longer wished to honour the treaty and they had som 50k CS willing to settle the matter?

Think on this. We KNOW that the Zuma never used to field armies of this size. So there are two ways to think abou this. Did they always have the resources to and didn't bother. Or has something changed in the last 6 months or so that would have affected their resources?

We wouldn't care if it is PVP related. C'mon I am 35 years old and have played every roleplaying game from D&D first edition way back in 1985 to Quake and Doom all the way up to UO, It's not like I am crying about the Zuma because I have never dealt with griefers or game mechanics or PVP or anything of that matter. I came here for PVP/RP with other players bound by the same rules with different histories and stories. The Zuma are a GM controlled army that are not bound by the same rules , that can field huge armies and are basically hostile and consider humans to be ants and treaties and whatnot like 'peace' mean nothing to them. Its not a big deal. I knew the Zuma were dangerous since the start of Dwilight, that is why Asylon worked so hard to make good relations with the Zuma and to ignore and respect them. Later on we found out that it doesn't matter the Zuma do not care and basically if you don't like it pack up your kingdom and move over to the east continent and settle in the infinite amount of empty cities or join one of the 5 kingdoms in the east and hang out there with all 56 nobles that would be packed into each realm...Boring.

[vanKaya]

How many of you are starting to suspect De Legro is the Zuma GM.....

[De-Legro]

How many of you are starting to suspect De Legro is the Zuma GM.....

A simple check of my account would show I wasn't playing BM when the Zuma first started. A more in depth consideration would be, if I had access to the Zuma GM forum account, I would post less of this stuff under my own account.

[Eithad]

I don't actually know anything about the Zuma, but GMs have always said Daimons still are bounded by the same rules and game mechanics. Its not like they can just do whatever they want.

[De-Legro]

I don't actually know anything about the Zuma, but GMs have always said Daimons still are bounded by the same rules and game mechanics. Its not like they can just do whatever they want.

Not exactly. They are bound by their own rules and game mechanics. Just as the monsters had their own system while you were a part of that invasion, you back stabbing scum

[Dante Silverfire]

How many of you are starting to suspect De Legro is the Zuma GM.....

No, but he like others (such as myself) have dealt with them some in the past and happen to realize a bit on how to act around them. At least I have learned from my mistakes in that area so that I won't make them again.

Believe it or not, De-Legro is actually trying to help you without blatantly telling you what to do, instead of just lecturing you.

The point is that the Zuma have been on Dwilight since the beginning and their location was known at least relatively for a while before people actuallly settled right on their border.

Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but all of my knowledge and experience of them suggests that if you just look at the map of Dwilight and pretend that every region that the Zuma hold and every region they touch simply didn't exist and played accordingly, then you would pretty much not have to deal with the Zuma. If members of your realm (especially your rulers) choose to not do so, or someone chooses to interact with them, that is a different story. Either punish those characters or take the consequences, or simply move elsewhere. The Zuma are bounded by certain game mechanics which limit their power, and as far as I can tell they also only respond to human interactions instead of simply killing for no reason.

On another note: I'm fairly sure that if Terran for instance wanted to involve itself in the Luria affair and simply ignore the Zuma during that time and proceed not to taunt or insult them, they would be perfectly capable of doing so without the Zuma interference.

And, a good point was made that reasons for war aren't always the ones that are publicly stated. It is quite possible that your character is simply unaware of the real reasons or leaders didn't respond to the real reasons. PeL certainly has seen plenty of this recently.

[Indirik]

And, a good point was made that reasons for war aren't always the ones that are publicly stated.

Give this man a cookie.

To expand on this, the reasons that are stated my be believed by those stating them, but nevertheless be completely false. Look at what happened when Caerwyn declared war on Astrum. Several players have stated that they believed the reasons they gave, yet they were completely fictitious. Which doesn't mean they were lies, they were just poorly informed or misled.

The reasons for a war will rarely, if ever, be declared by both sides as justified. That would require both sides to be viewing the incident from the same point of view, and both being reasonable and logical. And if that was the case, there probably wouldn't have been a war in the first place.

[De-Legro]

Give this man a cookie.

To expand on this, the reasons that are stated my be believed by those stating them, but nevertheless be completely false. Look at what happened when Caerwyn declared war on Astrum. Several players have stated that they believed the reasons they gave, yet they were completely fictitious. Which doesn't mean they were lies, they were just poorly informed or misled.

The reasons for a war will rarely, if ever, be declared by both sides as justified. That would require both sides to be viewing the incident from the same point of view, and both being reasonable and logical. And if that was the case, there probably wouldn't have been a war in the first place.

With the Zuma though, at least with regards to the forgery we got a OOC confirmation about the reason. What I don't recall seeing is if it was the only reason for the attack, or more the straw that broke the camels back.