Zuma/Daimons

[songqu88@gmail.com]

For players in Asylon (And even Glaumring can attest to this) there is really little fear of actual daimon assault. Sure, there can be the whole "They didn't value our treaty!" thing, but end all: Asylon has never suffered destruction by the daimons. Kosht rebelled, and the Zuma just didn't decide to return the region at that time due to what was said to them.

So please, do remember that Terran's not the only realm next to the Zuma. Barca might have gotten hit hard recently, but hey, they resolved it, and as far as I can tell, they'll be pretty well off going forward. Asylon has always had good relations, minus the small hitch regarding Kosht, and have never had hostile daimons in their lands.

Now here's the deal people of Terran and any other realms who find dealing with the Zuma boring and/or...whatever. Talk to the guys playing in Asylon to determine just how they are able not only to live next to the Zuma, but actually pay attention to their borders with Kabrinskia as well, sending their armies north to deal with monsters rather than keeping them in the south to watch against incoming daimons.

It can be done. It has been done. You can do it too, if you want. If you don't want to or your leaders are incapable of doing so, then perhaps ICly...it is time to consider how good your leaders really are, and whether you really want them to continue that course for your realm.

[dustole]

If you want to hurt or slow down the Zuma then quit giving them food!  They didn't get obscenely powerful until every realm in the south west started giving/selling them all their surplus food. 

Allison brought Haktoo food when she went there to talk about Terrence and prevent conflict with SA.  200 bushels is not a lot of food and it seemed to make her way more pleased than it should have.  So if 200 bushels is important to the Daimons then what do you think they are doing with the 1000's and 1000's of bushels that everyone has been giving them?     

Also, have you considered that some of their raiding parties are there to steal food /and/ punish you?  Have you considered that some of their anger is over you stopping the continued food sales?    I noticed that the Zuma attacked Vassar.  That region must have been the region Terran was using to supply the Daimons with food.  Vassar /always/ had an open sell offer for food.  I bought a great number of bushels of food from Vassar sneaky style with the new(old) caravan system.  The region never seemed to run out of food.  Were the Daimons mad that their food wasn't being delivered? 


There are a lot of variables to this situation that aren't being considered.

[Valast]

The entire discussion here is amazing to me... and LONG... Just caught up! 

After careful review of everything written here, my summery is... PTHHHHHHH

We are all characters in a story here.  We take the actions we wish to take, yet we are subject to the world around us.  Play your part...live or die...thrive or fail...fight or fly... Take your lumps and carry on.

I love the GM interaction.  I think every island should have some sort of GM NPC...  It can help eliminate stagnation.  Sure, your realm/character/friends/plots/plans may come to an end because one noble fakes one letter...  Or perhaps that one letter (and the response from it) is what it takes to stand up as the Human race and prove that the Daimons are not the strongest.

*shrug* its our story to play out.  Stay in character and do your part.

All the OOC arguments only take away from the game.  I learned long ago to avoid OOC arguments because they nearly ruined this game for me.  I could not understand why I was being attacked when I did nothing wrong but play the game the way my character would.

I learned much about human nature through those flame wars against me... and the end result is I am still here playing...and the flamers are not.

Be civil... do not react... we are all here to play and have fun.

Now... go kill some Daimons.

[fodder]

... how does selling food to daimons work now anyway?

it's noted that daimon rulers won't be grabbing all sell offers... but does that mean they'll stick up buy offers?

[songqu88@gmail.com]

It works by Garret.

[MaleMaldives]

Now here's the deal people of Terran and any other realms who find dealing with the Zuma boring and/or...whatever. Talk to the guys playing in Asylon to determine just how they are able not only to live next to the Zuma, but actually pay attention to their borders with Kabrinskia as well, sending their armies north to deal with monsters rather than keeping them in the south to watch against incoming daimons.

Say that to the forged letter incident. It was completely ridiculous and retarded.

And to the food thing in Vassar, I am the senator of that region and that isn't the case.

For the case of Terran vs. the Zuma simply get a statement from each player in Terran that have been there for at least a year about how the feel the Zuma have been affecting the game for them and why. If the majority of them are like the Zuma are making the game not fun, then the GM's should do something to fix or apologize for the ridiculous before and try not to do that again. If the GM's don't feel like doing that even though the majority of the players feel that way then I guess they don't care about the quality of game for the players, but at least we know not to bother complaining anymore. Lastly if the majority don't think that, then the few that are complaining should stop. Thus the endless debating will stop.

[fodder]

It works by Garret.

what does that mean? garret will stick buy offers up?
garret will buy up whatever sell offers around he fancies?

[Indirik]

For the case of Terran vs. the Zuma simply get a statement from each player in Terran that have been there for at least a year about how the feel the Zuma have been affecting the game for them and why.

Why don't you ask them all to come here and state their opinion? If you can get each player of Terran to come here and state their case, then I think you will have a much stronger argument than "It was completely ridiculous and retarded."

[Vellos]

But if they really are the unpredictable, unstoppable, violent hordes that some are claiming them to be, then if they did randomly attack you and try to wipe you out, there's nothing you could do about it anyway. So turtling in your realm seems pretty useless, doesn't it? We all know how 10's of thousands of CS of daimons really can't even be scratched by the army that Terran can field. (And probably not by any single realm on Dwilight, either.) The military defense against the Zuma is obviously pointless. So why not do something fun/useful with your army, and let the diplomats/ambassadors "defend" the realm against the Zuma?

Because if we have walls, we might hold out long enough to RTO the entire Zuma Coalition?

(joking of course; I don't know if you even can RTO Zuma regions, and we don't have the priests or the conversion rates to do something like that)

But, in all seriousness... if it came to fighting, we might survive for a while.

And... the "pretend they're not there" strategy did not succeed in solving the Zuma Question. So we are taking a new approach. Terran is not idling around, doing nothing. We are taking proactive measures to try and make it so we can get back to Battlemaster rather than Zumamaster. But abstaining from Zumamaster is not an option. So now we're trying to play an effective medium-term game of Zumamaster to position us so we can get back to Battlemaster.

Indirik:
VanKaya, MaleMaldives, myself, Perth, and Scarlett have all spoken up unanimously that we find the Zuma, as they currently are, to be "Not fun." That's over 25% of Terran. There may have been others who posted briefly as well.

Maybe you should try and get 25% of Astrum to get on the forums and have a unified opinion about something.

[^ban^]

Hmmm...

What is the difference between the Cagilan Empire and the Zuma?

Or Sirion. Or Enweil (pre-fourth, most likely). Or any other powerful realm?

Powerful realms have their own goals and they will !@#$ you up if you stand in the way of them. This is not new or unique to the Zuma, so why is there a twenty seven page thread about why it is the epitome of evil for the Zuma to do so? Hell, the Zuma have had less impact than a realm of equivalent position (SA...) would have had because of how passive they are.

[Indirik]

(joking of course; I don't know if you even can RTO Zuma regions, and we don't have the priests or the conversion rates to do something like that)

That is an interesting question. I have no idea if that's possible or not.

And... the "pretend they're not there" strategy did not succeed in solving the Zuma Question. So we are taking a new approach. Terran is not idling around, doing nothing. We are taking proactive measures to try and make it so we can get back to Battlemaster rather than Zumamaster. But abstaining from Zumamaster is not an option. So now we're trying to play an effective medium-term game of Zumamaster to position us so we can get back to Battlemaster.

I'm not advocating an "ignore them" strategy. Rather, if you know that Method A is simply unworkable or impossible, then don't do it. Move on to Method B. And sicne military defense against the Zuma seems to be impossible (at least from an OOC sense, my character has reached no such conclusion IC, and would willingly engage them in battle, if needed) then don't try it. Simply, deal with the Zuma on a diplomatic/RP level instead, and let your army do whatever it was you would have been doing if you weren't mounted a doomed Zuma defense.

But, if you have a plan, that's cool.

VanKaya, MaleMaldives, myself, Perth, and Scarlett have all spoken up unanimously that we find the Zuma, as they currently are, to be "Not fun." That's over 25% of Terran. There may have been others who posted briefly as well.

Maybe you should try and get 25% of Astrum to get on the forums and have a unified opinion about something.

Oh, I know that it would be difficult to do. Yet MaleMaldivees is tossing around terms such as "the majority of the players", etc. If you are going to make such claims, then back them up. Ask them to come here and state their case. If they truly are as passionately against the Zuma as you are representing, then I think they should be willing to put forth the few minutes of effort it would take. It doesn't have to be a 5,000-word essay. A simple "My character's name is Frankie McTerran, and I think the Zuma hurt the Dwilight experience." from 75% of the Terran players would be excellent incentive for ZumaGM to re-evaluate the situation, and perhaps make some changes. (Bonus if you get a bunch of D'Harans and Barcans, too, and if they can contribute more than "I don't like the Zuma.) But if you have only 4 or 5 people here saying that, then I really doubt that you're going to make much more of an impact that you already have.

There have been some changes that have been made due to the feedback received in this thread, and possibly some more on the way, pending Tom's consultation/approval. Even if they happen, though, they may never be announced. But it would be in everyone's best interests to keep the discussion going, in as civil a manner as possible. Things like "it was retarded", "don't care about the quality of game", " they be retarded and attack Terran over dumb stuff", etc., are only going to make people less sympathetic to your side, and less willing to d anything about it. (Ad yes, I do know that you're not the one who said those things.)

[egamma]

Hmmm...

What is the difference between the Cagilan Empire and the Zuma?

Or Sirion. Or Enweil (pre-fourth, most likely). Or any other powerful realm?

Powerful realms have their own goals and they will !@#$ you up if you stand in the way of them. This is not new or unique to the Zuma, so why is there a twenty seven page thread about why it is the epitome of evil for the Zuma to do so? Hell, the Zuma have had less impact than a realm of equivalent position (SA...) would have had because of how passive they are.

That's my position as well. I've played against Lukon, CE, Belu invasion--and guess what, it's fun to play against a challenging enemy. I've stood my ground, alone, against the entire army of Archaron, back in 2008 when they seemed like multis.

C'mon, people. It's BATTLEmaster.

[Valast]

Again, I have just read all 27 pages of this TODAY...

But seems the entire argument is based on a few people who feel that GM's interacting with the players game is no fun... because it f's up your plans to kick the rear of some other player.

That is the basics of this entire 27 pages... I hear please remove the GM aspect so we can win... That is all I am hearing.  But you forget its not your game.  Go tell EA that you think they should make changes to a game...and you will be ignored.  That game you dropped $50 on... this one can be $0

Play the game the way it is designed... quit whining... quit flaming... You feel the GM's involved are screwing you over OOC or against the mechanics...email Tom or open Titan complaint.

Think that prdy much sums up this bitch fest.

[vanKaya]

That's my position as well. I've played against Lukon, CE, Belu invasion--and guess what, it's fun to play against a challenging enemy. I've stood my ground, alone, against the entire army of Archaron, back in 2008 when they seemed like multis.

C'mon, people. It's BATTLEmaster.

All those realms, regardless of how powerful they are, are still human realms, that can make human mistakes . The Zuma GM controls ALL the DAimons. Would you enjoy playing against Lukon or blahblahblah if you KNEW for a fact it was just one guy controlling it?

Why don't we add two more GMs, whats so hard about that?

Why are the people on this thread arguing "CHANGE NOTHING, if they dont like it they can sit down and shut up!"

Seriously, no one, I repeat, NO ONE, who has been anti Zuma has been of the opinion to get rid of them entirely.

Also, contrary to what De-Legro insists, very few people are being critical of the Zuma GM, most if not all realize hes doing his best, however, the circumstances he must play in kinda lend themselves to a poor, uninteresting playstyle. Honestly if I was the GM I dont think I could do a much better job. On the other hand, if I was playing alongside two other GMs I think it would be exponentially more flavorful.

I actually quite enjoyed the Zuma before, they were mystical beings off in the corner who we had to be very careful not to disturb. Now they act like children and meet any perceived slight with massive armies. Someone brought up Everguard and the level 1000 guards. An interesting theory. I've never played everguard, but let me guess, if you attack the guard he beats you up, yes? what if you and your buddy are having a private conversation about the guard? does he come in and stomp you then too? What if someone gives the guard a forged message that says you called him a twat? does he come and kill you??

Honestly, the people defending the Zuma are employing logical fallacy over logical fallacy to prove their points. Many (most) of their arguments are circuitous and they often disprove their owne previous arguments with their newer arguments. If this was a verbal debate, you would all lose.

[MaleMaldives]

Yeah i apologize for the retarded statement. It wasn't a good way to put things. But I will send an OOC message around Terran then probable stop posting here.