Zuma/Daimons

[^ban^]

Why don't we add two more GMs, whats so hard about that?

Maintaining consistency of a story between multiple GMs is incredibly difficult, especially when the story has a span as long as the Zuma's. Just look at what happened with Vates: He created so many storylines for the Zuma but did so without collaboration from Haktoo left no usable notes behind for Haktoo to work with. Or you could look at the disaster that was Netherworld in the fourth invasion where some GMs out right refused to work with others.

And, finally, finding people who have the time, ability and willingness to take on the role of a GM is not easy. It is hard, thankless work where you will hear about everything you do wrong and very little about what you do right.

[Sacha]

What I wonder is this:

1. Pretty much from the start of Dwilight, it was known that there was a Daimon presence in the west.
2. Daimons were at the time known to be immensely powerful and very dangerous, and are not subject to any code of honor or even reasoning on a human level.
3. Daimons were known to raise huge armies that could trampled all but the greatest human armies thrown against them.
4. Western Dwilight was as far from civilization as could be at the opening of Dwilight.

Taking these facts into account, it's only logical that the closer you put yourself to Daimons and whatever minions/servants/allies they have, the closer you put yourself to danger in the form of irrational and enormously powerful beings who see humans as glorified vermin. So, by colonizing the west, you intentionally put yourself in the Daimons' crosshairs.

And somehow it's the GMs' fault that you got stomped on?

[Telrunya]

And, finally, finding people who have the time, ability and willingness to take on the role of a GM is not easy. It is hard, thankless work where you will hear about everything you do wrong and very little about what you do right.

And for that I want to thank the Zuma GM once more for his hard work I have always enjoyed the Zuma and hope you will continue your efforts for a long time! (That said, I'm sure the people that have complaints also recognize the time and dedication you spend on the Zuma!) Many thanks!

[vonGenf]

Hmmm...

What is the difference between the Cagilan Empire and the Zuma?

Or Sirion. Or Enweil (pre-fourth, most likely). Or any other powerful realm?

The Zuma is a NPC realm. NPCs are held to a higher standard than normal players. If they don't want to be held to such a standard, then they should play like the rest of us do.

This is not to say the Zuma GM is not doing a good job; I think he has a thankless task and is doing quite well in the circumstances. But it is normal that the players voice their opinion about the game.

Disagreeing with the Zuma's behaviour is not like disagreeing with SA's behaviour. It's more like disagreeing with the way a certain game mechanics is set up. NPC's are not other players; they are part of the rules.

[vonGenf]

Maintaining consistency of a story between multiple GMs is incredibly difficult, especially when the story has a span as long as the Zuma's. Just look at what happened with Vates: He created so many storylines for the Zuma but did so without collaboration from Haktoo left no usable notes behind for Haktoo to work with. Or you could look at the disaster that was Netherworld in the fourth invasion where some GMs out right refused to work with others.

Yet human realms composed of many players do manage to keep up a long term realm tradition.

(Yes, I know, I just contradicted my previous post by comparing the Zuma to a human realm. Sorry. I guess I'm not particularly logically consistent today.)

[Bjarnson]

'lo there, I havent really been reading through the whole thread yet, but I just want to say that my experience with the Zuma has been most enjoyable. Sure it has been a tough issue for Asylon recently, as Duke of Echiur I might look south with dread and awe for the masses of creatures and beeings south of our border. But as the player behind my char, I am having a blast.

[De-Legro]

The Zuma is a NPC realm. NPCs are held to a higher standard than normal players. If they don't want to be held to such a standard, then they should play like the rest of us do.

This is not to say the Zuma GM is not doing a good job; I think he has a thankless task and is doing quite well in the circumstances. But it is normal that the players voice their opinion about the game.

Disagreeing with the Zuma's behaviour is not like disagreeing with SA's behaviour. It's more like disagreeing with the way a certain game mechanics is set up. NPC's are not other players; they are part of the rules.

Indeed they are. For example many normal players, had a thread similar to this occurred about their actions, would have just taken the supposed 100k armies they had, manufactured a reason, and destroyed every realm that spoke against them. We expect that the GM will not do this.

The GM plays to the standards Tom has set. If you think those standards need to be changed, then really you need to get a goodly number of players to support it, and send the argument directly to Tom. With a thread as full of flame as this one, I doubt he has the time to pick through it.

I totally get that the recent actions of the GM haven't met some players expectations. The converse is also true, they have met the expectations of other players. The GM can not possibly hope to meet the expectations of all players, thus he plays according the the guidelines set by Tom. Convince Tom and the guidelines will change.

[Gustav Kuriga]

I'm honestly thinking about leaving the game. I didn't come to play D&Dmaster, I came to play Battlemaster, with other players, not an NPC faction. If I wanted to play with NPC factions, I would have made a character in Beluaterra. Currently the only thing keeping me in this game is my Dwilight character, and I'm starting to lose interest because we can't think of having war between our different realms with the Zuma being on such a hair trigger all the time.

[De-Legro]

I'm honestly thinking about leaving the game. I didn't come to play D&Dmaster, I came to play Battlemaster, with other players, not an NPC faction. If I wanted to play with NPC factions, I would have made a character in Beluaterra. Currently the only thing keeping me in this game is my Dwilight character, and I'm starting to lose interest because we can't think of having war between our different realms with the Zuma being on such a hair trigger all the time.

You are in a realm that has excellent relations with the Zuma, with a ruler that from all account has a very good grasp on how to deal with them. I fail to see how the Zuma is affecting your realms ability to go to war at all. Unless your only possible targets are Terran and Barca and you have a rare sense of fair play.

Things will die down. Back when Terran was attacked years ago there were similar discussions, though we did not have a forum back then. Realms predicted that the west was doom, the Zuma had awakened, nothing was the same and PS why didn't Tom warn us. Then they went back into hibernation again.

[Gustav Kuriga]

It's not my personal situation that is making me think about doing this, but the situation overall.

[Anaris]

It's not my personal situation that is making me think about doing this, but the situation overall.

So, to put it another way:

You're seriously considering leaving the game, not because anything has changed in how you can actually play, but just because you cannot stand the very concept of there being an NPC faction on Dwilight.

Is that substantially correct?

[Glaumring the Fox]

You are in a realm that has excellent relations with the Zuma, with a ruler that from all account has a very good grasp on how to deal with them. I fail to see how the Zuma is affecting your realms ability to go to war at all. Unless your only possible targets are Terran and Barca and you have a rare sense of fair play.

Things will die down. Back when Terran was attacked years ago there were similar discussions, though we did not have a forum back then. Realms predicted that the west was doom, the Zuma had awakened, nothing was the same and PS why didn't Tom warn us. Then they went back into hibernation again.

You forgot Asylon!

[GoldPanda]

Hmmm...

What is the difference between the Cagilan Empire and the Zuma?

Or Sirion. Or Enweil (pre-fourth, most likely). Or any other powerful realm?

Powerful realms have their own goals and they will !@#$ you up if you stand in the way of them. This is not new or unique to the Zuma, so why is there a twenty seven page thread about why it is the epitome of evil for the Zuma to do so? Hell, the Zuma have had less impact than a realm of equivalent position (SA...) would have had because of how passive they are.

The difference is, none of those realms you mentioned, as far as I'm aware, has Garret Artemesia for an ambassador. That's my only beef with the Zuma, really.

There is being a bully, and then there is cartoonish, supervillainy trolling.

[Sacha]

@Gustav, not to be mean or anything, but I really don't think you threatening to leave is going to make much of a difference.

I don't like the Daimons/Zuma at all myself, I feel they add little to the atmosphere other than a looming sense of doom for those nearby, but they're here and they won't be going away any time soon, so I deal with them as best I can. They are not a gigantic wrecking ball destroying realms at random. In fact they have yet to destroy a single realm, if I'm not mistaken. But they are very, very dangerous, and if you happen to have settled lands on their borders, well, then you have to deal with that whether you like it or not. There's plenty of realms who are not affected by them (or maybe a teensie bit) so it's not like they have the entire island by the balls.

@GoldPanda, not everyone talking to the Zuma does so via Garret, you know. There are people who speak to Haktoo directly.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Teehee, and people who try to deal directly with daimons without knowing what to do generally end up worse for the wear. ...And then try to blame Garret for it. It's lols.