Zuma/Daimons

[Anaris]

Have you met Screamer? I have. My gut reaction was not to ask "My, what big teeth you have!". I know too well what would be coming. All the daimons' RP that I have seen is meant to make my character feel like a 12 year-old.

Maybe you need to realize that there's more to the Daimons than just Screamer.  That they have individual personality and physical traits that distinguish them.  And that acting like a 12-year-old is one of the best ways to get treated like a 12-year-old.

(Disclaimer: I have no idea how your characters have acted around the Zuma, nor how they have been treated.)

[egamma]

Have you met Screamer? I have. My gut reaction was not to ask "My, what big teeth you have!". I know too well what would be coming. All the daimons' RP that I have seen is meant to make my character feel like a 12 year-old.

Maybe you have seen different RP than I have. That's very possible and all the best for you then. However, from what I have seen, asking questions like what you propose would be non-SMA. It wouldn't be madness: my character is a priest, they can't do anything if I don't preach, so I as a player know that my character is safe. But my character doesn't.

That's what SMA is about.

Really? I think that curiosity is not a recent human invention. You could start the conversation by saying, "my religious texts do not mention daimons. What are you, and where do you come from?" Then, you can ask, "Why are you here, and why do you have such large armies?"

I don't think that would be against SMA--just a priest trying to fill in some gaps in his religion.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

He's in SA. Er...Dunno what that means though.

SMA doesn't mean some guy can't be crazy enough to try talking to a daimon (It happens all the time, perplexingly enough). It just means that in the actual presence of a daimon, your character is probably having trouble maintaining tension in his sphincters.

[vonGenf]

Really? I think that curiosity is not a recent human invention. You could start the conversation by saying, "my religious texts do not mention daimons. What are you, and where do you come from?" Then, you can ask, "Why are you here, and why do you have such large armies?"

I don't think that would be against SMA--just a priest trying to fill in some gaps in his religion.

OK, apparently we did not receive the same RP. The one I had mentioned, quite specifically, that I couldn't approach the origin of the scream as my ears were close to bleeding. Maybe I should go back, maybe they have changed since then.

Maybe they're not daimons anymore.

Or maybe I should have just ignored that RP and went on my way? Yeah, that's very SMA.

My own disclaimer: maybe others have had completely different experiences. That's fine with me, the Zuma are not obligated to treat everyone equally.

The fact remains that I want to react according to the way my character perceives the Zuma. If I'm OOC worried by something, I will certainly not just go into the Netherworld lands and just ask them. That's putting a extremely thin layer of IC coating around a OOC question. That's not wrong per se, but it's not how the game is intended to be played.

[vonGenf]

Has anyone mentioned the concerns of the army sizes in game? No. How do you know what response you would get? You don't, you just make assumptions on what anything and everything is there for.

SMA doesn't mean some guy can't be crazy enough to try talking to a daimon (It happens all the time, perplexingly enough). It just means that in the actual presence of a daimon, your character is probably having trouble maintaining tension in his sphincters.

Ok, maybe I'll try to express myself differently. I certainly don't mean to imply that anybody who talks to the daimons is wrong. Talking to the daimon, in an SMA manner, is certainly possible in some circumstances and I'm certain others have done it.

I don't think it's fair, however, to just come in and say "If you're worried about the Zuma army, why not ask me about it in game?" People are worried because it is controlled by a NPC character, because it is led by "daimons", and because they feel that it is an insurmountable force.

Note that I'm not too worried personally. My character and realms are safe. However, I as a player worry when other players complain that they are having less fun than they could.

Sure, people can go to the daimons and ask them about the size of their armies. They could also go to Eidulb and ask Brance why he keeps such a strong army. The difference is that Brance is human, and Brance is a PC. That's playing the game. I also don't think Brance would entertain them for very long (but who knows). Brance certainly wouldn't squash them like insects, however.

I have a real hard time to imagine why my character would go to the daimons and do that. Furthermore, it's not my character that wants to know "why" daimons keep a big army. My character notices the big army and he is afraid. If my character had such a war machine at his disposal and somebody asked him "why", can you imagine what he would do? He would crush the person who asked the question.

Of course, I'm sure the Zuma won't do that, because ZumaGM is aware that he is over-powered and that crushing people who ask such question is not his role on Dwilight. And I'm glad for that - if the Zuma crushed everybody who interacted with them, Dwilight would be a boring place. But that's not SMA.
Our characters are not supposed to know that ZumaGM is benevolent and wants to make Dwilight a fun place. Our characters see daimons.

Anyway, I'll stop here. I feel like I'm ranting and I don't want to.

[vonGenf]

Ok, one last comment.

When I see "Has anyone mentioned the concerns of the army sizes in game? No. How do you know what response you would get? You don't, you just make assumptions", what this means to me is "You're not good enough to beat the game. Work harder."

But Battlemaster is not a game you can win. It is a PvP environment.

When I hear Garrett say the same thing, it doesn't bother me because I know he is a player. He may well beat me at BM. That's fine. When the game says that, though, it does bother me.

[Anaris]

OK, apparently we did not receive the same RP. The one I had mentioned, quite specifically, that I couldn't approach the origin of the scream as my ears were close to bleeding. Maybe I should go back, maybe they have changed since then.

No, Screamer hasn't changed. But Screamer isn't the only Daimon.

Don't try to talk to Screamer. And don't expect a useful answer out of Silence.

The names mean something. Pay attention to them.

And absolutely, 100% do not assume that the type of interaction you can have with one Daimon is the type of interaction you can have with all Daimons.

Go find another Daimon—Haktoo would be a good one to try!—and just talk to them.

[Velax]

Well, Silence obviously has some means of communication, as he (she?) is the one I sent the FORGED LETTER to.

[Anaris]

Well, Silence obviously has some means of communication, as he (she?) is the one I sent the FORGED LETTER to.

It seems to me that letters are all you're likely to be able to get out of (or into) Silence.

[vonGenf]

Don't try to talk to Screamer. And don't expect a useful answer out of Silence.

The names mean something. Pay attention to them.

And absolutely, 100% do not assume that the type of interaction you can have with one Daimon is the type of interaction you can have with all Daimons.

Go find another Daimon—Haktoo would be a good one to try!—and just talk to them.

You think it would be SMA behaviour for a character who has met Screamer to purposefully seek out interaction with other daimons?

Seriously?

You're not just saying that for the sake of contradicting others?

Again, I understand that not everyone's first interaction was with Screamer - that's fine.

But, seriously?

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Heh, if Screamer was your first, then I'm sorry, my good sir, but your character, I suppose, is screwed. If you believe that SMA would mean your current character would not talk to another daimon due to the experience with Screamer, then all the more power to you. I admire your adherence to the strict guidelines you follow with that character.

Perhaps in the future, if you find yourself with a different character on Dwilight, your fortunes may change?

(PS: Garret doesn't win against anyone. And I figured out a good analogy for his role.

Here's a hypothetical situation: You're a poor person ignorant of the law. You get assigned a public defender. That lawyer appointed for you is like Garret. And the law I guess would be the daimons. Now, you might not like your lawyer, or want him. And guess what? Your lawyer probably doesn't like you either because you're poor and a nobody, and above all, he's not getting thanked for helping you, or getting his name out so he can handle bigger cases.

But despite all that, your lawyer actually knows the law, however little it may be, which is still a lot more than you, the stupid, idiotic, pauper. And he's more likely to get you a good deal with the prosecution than you would be able to alone.

And you know the ironic part? What I just illustrated is very, very close to what Garret is to characters like Glaumring and Hireshmont. (Minus the poor nameless part, since I guess they're rich and famous, but still just as ignorant when it comes to the daimons/analogue of the law in my analogy.)

[Anaris]

You think it would be SMA behaviour for a character who has met Screamer to purposefully seek out interaction with other daimons?

I think you might be confusing "SMA" with "don't think too hard, stereotype like mad, and abandon all curiosity."

If it is in your character's nature to assume that all other Daimons will be like Screamer, then by all means, abandon all possibility of finding out anything more about the Zuma IC (but don't complain to us OOC about it).

If, on the other hand, your character has a shred of curiosity or critical thinking in him, he might just say, "Hm. Well, that Daimon was very dangerous to approach. I thought I'd heard about people getting actual information out of the Daimons, though? How could they do that if their brains were bleeding out their ears? Maybe there are Daimons who don't do that...?"

[Gustav Kuriga]

I think you might be confusing "SMA" with "don't think too hard, stereotype like mad, and abandon all curiosity."

If it is in your character's nature to assume that all other Daimons will be like Screamer, then by all means, abandon all possibility of finding out anything more about the Zuma IC (but don't complain to us OOC about it).

If, on the other hand, your character has a shred of curiosity or critical thinking in him, he might just say, "Hm. Well, that Daimon was very dangerous to approach. I thought I'd heard about people getting actual information out of the Daimons, though? How could they do that if their brains were bleeding out their ears? Maybe there are Daimons who don't do that...?"

Might we try not attacking the other players characters OOC?

[Anaris]

Might we try not attacking the other players characters OOC?

Such was not at all my intention. I have great respect for von Genf's player.

I was giving him suggestions for how he might proceed, and a clarification of SMA—couched in the same level of sarcasm his post that I replied to was written with.

[Vellos]

Make them "Light" dudes, or I guess in this case..."Darkness" dudes...They can shoot out beams of...er...darkness...that destroys all human forces in a region like the Light worked on inhuman forces, humans can't enter regions with a "Temple of Darkness" which would be in Zuma regions (Thereby preventing most interactions), and any human TLs in a region blasted by darkness would get an auto-critically wounded effect lasting...a long time. lololol

By the way: Totally serious here. The temples would be situated in three key regions, like Nightmarch, Dragon Song, and Ruins of Walfurgisnacht. This would probably be enough to reach all regions in the Zuma, thus frying any humans who are dumb enough to invade. As well, because the temples are immobile, that means the Zuma can't go out to fry people, and can only be strictly defensive. This would get rid of complaints about how they are out to conquer !@#$ because they seriously can't.

As well, this would make people who try to forge letters to instigate an attack fail, because the Zuma can't do anything about it anyway, and the guys who are the target certainly won't go into the Zuma lands, unless they really have a deathwish. And if they do, then it really is solely their fault and their stupidity.

Also I'm aware of generally how the Light works. Anaris can provide further insight, and yes, it requires a religion, elder priests, etc etc. Little modification here or there...It doesn't look like it'd be too big of a mod, since the "darkness" temples could even be reduced in its options (You can't sacrifice...wait, nevermind. Zuma...humans...sacrifice. Right, that can be kept in lol)

Unfortunately, this won't work either. It'll be perceived as unjustified for a small gain. I'm just trying to show that I'm not adamantly opposed to change. I also think about some improvements, but by now I've accepted that my ideas are generally crappy and won't be listened to.

Actually... this would be okay with me. Artemesia just had a not terrible idea expressed in largely reasonable terms. Woah.