Duelling for infiltrator

[vonGenf]

I play an infiltrator. I would like for various reasons to duel someone.

I plan to switch class, have my duel, and then switch class back to infil afterwards.

It has occurred to me that it may be considered abusing game mechanics. I think it's fine, because there will be consequences; mostly that I will not be able to perform any infiltrator action for the 15 (30?) days it takes to switch classes back and forth. But I'm not 100% sure... what do you think?

This is on the East Island. I can provide more information if needed.

[De-Legro]

I've seen priest do this before. Its not my cup of tea, I assume the restrictions are there for a reason, plus I don't like changing class just to perform a single act, but so far as I am aware most player seem to find it acceptable.

[Shizzle]

I guess the penalties are in place exactly for preventing mechanics abuse. If they allow you to switch back after 15 days, I don't see why you'd game the rules.

Whether this is acceptable or not is a different question, but that should concern the discussion altering the mechanics to prevent this, not the application of rules already in place...

[vonGenf]

Whether this is acceptable or not is a different question, but that should concern the discussion altering the mechanics to prevent this, not the application of rules already in place...

Whether it's acceptable is exactly the question I'm asking. If the answer is "we won't lock you because technically you followed the rules, but we'll change the rules so that it doesn't happen again", then I won't do it.

[Shizzle]

Whether it's acceptable is exactly the question I'm asking. If the answer is "we won't lock you because technically you followed the rules, but we'll change the rules so that it doesn't happen again", then I won't do it.

Yeah, you're right, I didn't really read that well. Looks like I just copied what you said, my bad

[songqu88@gmail.com]

What's wrong with that?

Infil: Yo, duel me.
Dude: No, you're too dishounorable.
Ex-infil: Hey look, I'm not an infil anymore!
Dude: Ok, let's duel.

*duels*

*One week (Yeah, class change only has a waiting period of 7 days last I checked) later*

Ex-infil: Kay time to put back on my infil cloak.

*turns into infil again*

You know, this actually makes sense in context. An infiltrator is someone who would reasonably know how to disguise himself, so he could at any time say he's a trader or something, duel someone, and slip back into the shadows. In fact, I'd say it's even a good tactic to use in order to avoid suspicion. After all, ICly people say that infils are too dishonorable to duel. This isn't unjustified behavior.

Of course, some infiltrators are notorious, which also matters because then the other character can just be like "No way, you're Snake Venomous, the evil assassin of the Empire" and simply refuse to duel you.

[vonGenf]

Of course, some infiltrators are notorious, which also matters because then the other character can just be like "No way, you're Snake Venomous, the evil assassin of the Empire" and simply refuse to duel you.

In this specific case, the character I want to duel has "experienced" the fact that my character is an infil. I pretty count on the fact that he will refuse the duel for the very reason you stated.

[Geronus]

I don't see this as exploiting a bug or loophole. It doesn't really gain you an advantage and it carries the penalty you mentioned. Also, you better be sure you still have enough honor to make the switch back. The requirement is pretty steep, and if you've been an infiltrator for long you might not have it anymore...

Is it meta-gaming? For sure. But I have a hard time characterizing this as an abuse. The other character can simply refuse to duel you. Not knowing exactly why Tom put that particular restriction in place, I will decline to comment on whether this case would result in a clarification from him.

[Vellos]

Not abuse, IMHO. The consequences for frequent class changes are fairly steep if I remember correctly.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Penalties for frequent class change? Haven't noticed any besides having the patience to wait a few days before switching again.

[Norrel]

What's the rationale behind infiltrators not being able to duel?

[Vellos]

Penalties for frequent class change? Haven't noticed any besides having the patience to wait a few days before switching again.

Really? Hm. I guess since I have done most class-changing with priest characters I just projected my experiences.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

What's the rationale behind infiltrators not being able to duel?

The game says something about how you have no honor and therefore cannot duel. Duels were about your honor being slighted. If you have no honor in the first place, then you have no right to duel.

Commoners can apparently duel each other, though they can't duel nobles. I am going to treat this as something like a commoner spat, or a bar fight. Some fight that the nobles can't be bothered to care about because they have their "superior honorable duels". Which really just amounted to senseless violence if you got down to it.

But, being the beings of strict tradition that they are, nobles are *supposed* to abide by the traditions of nobility. And among them is that one cannot duel if one has no honor. Apparently you can be as hypocritical and honorless as you want in your words and every other action you make. But dueling? No way, you sir, can most definitely not violate the sacred dueling tradition. But feel free to lie to your peers, rebel as much as you want, trade on the black market, badmouth your realm, etc. All those OVERT actions (Or at least stuff like rebellions and badmouthing your ream as a diplomat are overt and much more noticeable than infiltrator actions) would not make anyone see you to have any less honor (Which I find strange).

Really, you can badmouth your own realm as a diplomat in your own regions with (as far as I know) no consequences. Unless someone in your realm is observant, you'd probably even go unnoticed. Like, woah, really? That's sometimes considered treason...And yet those guys can go ahead and duel no problem.

It's weird, but who knows where the logic came from. I expect that it is an artifact from back in the days before the class split into main and sub. Back then Infiltrator class could be invisible and...I don't know why that would really matter in terms of dueling.

[Geronus]

It should probably be reconsidered now that the whole idea behind infiltrators is 'plausible deniability', but that's a discussion for the Development board.

[fodder]

or you can just say.. low honor.. (literally a character's honor number) no duels. what should the number be?

and change the name of duels for advy to something else.

class is just some abstract thing. no reason why someone should not be able to change class within limits. certainly no reason why someone should be penalised for changing class lots.