Author Topic: So TMP is gone. Are you enjoying all the new wars?  (Read 18737 times)

Indirik

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I'm not sure how I feel about this, really. Yes, TMP had its problems. I think we can all agree on that one. People were continually criticizing about how their realm couldn't fight because TMP was killing them, etc., etc., yadda, yadda....

But TMP has been gone for months now. So why hasn't GDoF joined with Madina to attack Aurvandil? Weren't they complaining about how they wanted to do that, but they couldn't, because TMP was making their troops suck, and their regions revolt, or something? (Not meaning to put GDoF on the spot, but GDoF players were very vocal about how TMP was preventing them from fighting the war. TMP is gone, so, where's the war, guys? (So, yeah, I guess I am putting them  on the spot. :D))

FEI is nearly dead. The only war taking place now is Arcaea v. Arcachon. And I hear that one is pretty darn boring.

EC... yeah... no one is fighting. Perdan and Caligus are just about done mopping up the last remnants of Ibladesh.

AT is hopping. But then again, AT hasn't really had a TMP problem.

So, where are all the wars? You don't have the excuse of TMP holding you back anymore. Why is almost everyone at peace?
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Artemesia

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People don't like to do it if they don't have to. Because it could end up being the end of their realm.

De-Legro

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People don't like to do it if they don't have to. Because it could end up being the end of their realm.

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Anaris

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Timothy Collett

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Tom

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I agree that we need an incentive for war. The dev team has been discussing several alternatives for a while now, but due to ongoing code work, it'll be a while until they see the light of day.


I don't understand why people are afraid of wars. There's very little to lose in BM.


Artemesia

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No no, Mr. Tom, for some people, in their eyes, they apparently have a lot to lose.

It's like how those boyfriends kill their girlfriends after they delete that WoW account.

fodder

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i think GDoF has been busy starving itself... as in city didn't want to pay for the food.
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Vellos

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I'm not sure how I feel about this, really. Yes, TMP had its problems. I think we can all agree on that one. People were continually criticizing about how their realm couldn't fight because TMP was killing them, etc., etc., yadda, yadda....

But TMP has been gone for months now. So why hasn't GDoF joined with Madina to attack Aurvandil? Weren't they complaining about how they wanted to do that, but they couldn't, because TMP was making their troops suck, and their regions revolt, or something? (Not meaning to put GDoF on the spot, but GDoF players were very vocal about how TMP was preventing them from fighting the war. TMP is gone, so, where's the war, guys? (So, yeah, I guess I am putting them  on the spot. :D))

Terran would be at war right now were it not for a certain group of non-humans to their west.
"A neutral humanism is either a pedantic artifice or a prologue to the inhuman." - George Steiner

Indirik

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Yes, I can accept that the Zuma have caused some issues on Dwilight in their area. You get a pass. ;)
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Shizzle

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i think GDoF has been busy starving itself... as in city didn't want to pay for the food.

That's one reason. The Duke killed off a third or more of the population, so we've been in the process of replacing him. Also, we've put a new system in place, with a new duchy around Drowenton. Furthermore, there were the things going on in the Halls of Luria that kept me busy. Those would be reasons why I (and others in Fissoa) have been busy with other things than war.

But the reason why we didn't attack Aurvandil is different. It's Madina's failure. When we had those discussions about TMP, we thought we'd be able to tilt the scales in the conflict by joining in. However, Madina's battle plan was disastrous, and our realm decided to refrain from an offensive role in the conflict, until a proper plan was devised by Madina (communication issues, as well).

I've been thinking of getting into a new conflict, but several things indicate trouble brewing in Luria.  Anyways, maybe I should propose once more to the realm, and Madina, to assault Candiels. Even if we fail, we'd have had the fun of a battle :) I'm just not very inclined to do that out of any RP context.

Now, it's not my intention here to talk about Fissoa all day, I'm just responding to Indirik's attempt to put me on the spot. To which I take no offense, by the way :D

Terran would be at war right now were it not for a certain group of non-humans to their west.

The Daimons seem to be the new point of conflict, after TMP. Maybe we're just all being difficult? :P (I don't dislike the daimons, though. But I can understand the pov of those involved. I guess I wouldn't have cared for TMP without Fissoa either...)

Lorgan

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I think the estate systems are to blame. And that's kind of weird for me to say because I love the estate systems, the old one even more than the new one.
The thing is, in the old estate system you sometimes couldn't go to war since you had no nobles to support any conquests, and land is and has always been THE most important motivator for war. (though in my opinion that's just a common excuse, take Thalmarkin before the 4th invasion: we didn't have enough nobles so we just let 3 of our badlands go rogue and went to war to take a strategically important stronghold, and of course... kick some ass.)
Anyway, with the new estate system that is no longer an issue. The issue now is: why try expanding when you would probably profit more from having your nobles concentrated in a city than by taking those rurals? Why risk it all for little gain?
Again, that is a stupid excuse in my opinion but I do believe it is, again, a common one.

The fact is that ever since "conquest" lost it's unquestionable correlation with "profit" or "fun" (because yes, it can be a drag to have to control too much land, or to build up newly conquered land again) wars became less appealing. Of course there's still those people who don't care and just want to have war for the fun of it, but I think there are also the more calculated players who don't immediately see an objective reason to go to war anymore. And thus stay at home.

I think the failure of TMP was that it tried to punish those who stayed at home (and those we did go to war but didn't manage to scrape up enough glory to last for one refit period) in stead of trying to encourage them to go to war. People would think: "Oh, TMP will never happen to us, we're still fighting monsters here and there!" but then it did and they'd go: "Darn it! Now we can't go to war anymore! Our units are completely useless!"
I don't immediately know how to solve this without getting rid of other great aspects of the game but I think the lesser value of pure land is one of the most important reasons for avoiding war.

I am thinking though that under the new estate system less efficiency means that less gold is getting collected by you or your knights but that gold needs to go somewhere... Maybe the peasants get richer and there is sort of a build-up of wealth inside the region that could be accessed by special, hurtful, instant and direct taxes and looting? Just an idea though. Land would at least not lose it's value anymore, it's gold would just not immediately fall into your hands (unless you have 100% efficiency) and it would increase income from looting, another of those fun acts of war. :)

Shizzle

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Also, here's a theory:

BM unites two kinds of gameplay. There's the strategic part of making your realm efficient and fighting wars, and there's roleplaying and developing your character.
Unfortunately, wars tend to disrupt plans for the part of the 'rp community' that I'd dare call 'docile or in high places'. Combine that with the lack of players (making the strategists choose the safer option as well) and many conflicts are being evaded.

Perhaps we need incentives for those /without/ great power to start wars. Unfortunately (though for understandable reasons) inter-duchy wars have been shot down.

Encouraging small raiding parties, for instance in rogue territory as well (triggering larger NPC counter reactions? -mostly for Dwilight), could be an idea? Hopping over and looting your neutral neighbour shouldn't be a reason for all-out war. Encourage small conflicts, and big ones will emerge over time.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 05:06:29 PM by Shizzle »

Lefanis

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I miss TMP. For all it's flaws, at least it got wars going.
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Indirik

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Yes, TMP was not perfect. I'm not saying that, by any means. But many people were blaming the /lack/ of war on TMP. That, and the fact that it did have so many problems, was why it was removed. And now, several months later, not only do we not have more wars, we have even less. I know that one or two of my characters have tried advocating war, and pushing courses of action that would result in warfare. But too many people just seem to not want to cause waves, or take risks, or break treaties. Even when the holding of those treaties will probably result in very bad things for them and their allies.

So, maybe it wasn't TMP that was the problem after all?
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Shizzle

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TMP itself was no bad idea, but I think it was inadequately attuned to whatever problems caused the lack of wars.

Surely there must be a way of making people, playing a war-game, want to go to war?