To RP or not to RP...

[Ramiel]

And Player A can always tell him (lets call him player C) in a fully OOC way how he got the information.

[LilWolf]

If you want to do narrative RP in BM you'd best do it with just "fluff" that has nothing to do with anything important. Sure, RP how great a hunt your character had or how he charmed a few ladies, but steer well away from anything that just might affect something(diplomacy, your standing with the king etc.)

Or do the other option and just don't RP. The latter option seems to be what a lot of players have chosen. I know I have.

[Ramiel]

Which, LilWolf, frankly makes BattleMaster a non-roleplaying game full stop.

If roleplayers cant roleplay without one douchebag ruining it for everyone by godmodding (and that is what they are doing in effect) and most the community seems fine with the way things are and allow that douchebag to just go ahead and do it, then simply put its not a Roleplaying game.

What irks me is that on any other continent, sure fine, thats the way I see the game set up. But on Dwilight, the actual RP and SMA world...

[Perth]

Honestly, RP's between two people or a group of several people are usually the way to go these days and I have always found them to be the most fruitful because all parties are interested in trying to create something fun and interesting.

Save your RP energy for those meetings between conspirators, relationships between liege and vassal, close friends reminiscing over old the days, etc. Generic RP's sent out to the whole realm will probably never be a productive or engaging as ones between cooperative and willing parties.

[Sacha]

I say this for probably the 79th time:

ROLEPLAYING IS NOT THE SAME AS WRITING NARRATIVES

[Anaris]

After talking with LilWolf on IRC:

It is true that Tom, the Titans, the devs, the Magistrates, etc cannot realistically police the (ab)use of such information.

However, the current guidance on the Wiki—and Tom's official position—is, indeed, actively chilling potentially positive roleplay within the game.

If it is desired that this be something that the players police for themselves, then why not say this? Rather than just a blunt statement that OOC information being used IC cannot be punished, why not say something like the following:

"Use of OOC information IC, or use of information from people's roleplays that you would not reasonably be able to obtain access to in-character, is strongly frowned upon, and it is expected that the players will police this and deal harshly in-character with those who show up with knowledge they could not have obtained save through dark magics."

This could go a long way toward changing the atmosphere and attitude toward such actions.  If it was considered unacceptable by the majority of players to use such information nefariously (at least openly), we might very well see a lot more interesting RP—and I think a lot of us would enjoy that.

[Dante Silverfire]

After talking with LilWolf on IRC:

It is true that Tom, the Titans, the devs, the Magistrates, etc cannot realistically police the (ab)use of such information.

However, the current guidance on the Wiki—and Tom's official position—is, indeed, actively chilling potentially positive roleplay within the game.

If it is desired that this be something that the players police for themselves, then why not say this? Rather than just a blunt statement that OOC information being used IC cannot be punished, why not say something like the following:

"Use of OOC information IC, or use of information from people's roleplays that you would not reasonably be able to obtain access to in-character, is strongly frowned upon, and it is expected that the players will police this and deal harshly in-character with those who show up with knowledge they could not have obtained save through dark magics."

This could go a long way toward changing the atmosphere and attitude toward such actions.  If it was considered unacceptable by the majority of players to use such information nefariously (at least openly), we might very well see a lot more interesting RP—and I think a lot of us would enjoy that.

This is exactly the point of my post. If the community is interested then I would say that we pursue this route of self-policing as that is the only route which could conceivably work.

[Perth]

I say this for probably the 79th time:

ROLEPLAYING IS NOT THE SAME AS WRITING NARRATIVES

Okay?

The difference really doesn't matter for the purposes of this discussion, which is: the use of information the player knows by the player's character.

[Barthalomeus]

I RPed quite a lot a few years ago. It's great fun for you and everyone else reading it if your RPs are done up properly.

The best way to roleplay IC events is to RP your decision as you make the decision, or shortly after.

For example...

If you're a ruler, and you want to RP your decision to go to war, do so just before you click the "declare war" button IC.

Or if you want to place a bounty and RP why you did it. Place the bounty first, then RP your thoughts.

That simple.

[Norrel]

I don't know of anyone in Luria douchey enough to magically know what happened in that RP.

On the other hand, your doing that RP means that logically deducing who did it can't be done any more. Considering the fact that you placed an enormous bounty and were one of the richest people involved in that whole debate, anyone with half a brain could deduce that you did it. Now, if someone were to say they did so, they would look like an !@#$%^& who just ripped information from the rp, turning the whole thing into a messy catastrophe.

[Dante Silverfire]

I don't know of anyone in Luria douchey enough to magically know what happened in that RP.

On the other hand, your doing that RP means that logically deducing who did it can't be done any more. Considering the fact that you placed an enormous bounty and were one of the richest people involved in that whole debate, anyone with half a brain could deduce that you did it. Now, if someone were to say they did so, they would look like an !@#$%^& who just ripped information from the rp, turning the whole thing into a messy catastrophe.

I just don't see how what I did was wrong though. I RP'ed a narrative of my character which explained the reasons for his actions. As a player I don't mind if people figure out that he was the one who set the bounty. The only part I mind, is if people say that he set the bounty without even RP'ing reasoning behind it. My character is easily one of the top suspects for the bounty placement and logic used to relay that would be quite acceptable. However, if asked: "How do you know?" and they don't have a good response, then that is where the problem is.

The question becomes is it a mistake to RP the reasons for actions that one takes? I've done it all the time to show aspects of my character to other players which disagrees with what the actions themselves may show or what their characters may think of my character. (Acting nice while being mean, and vice versa). This isn't anything like everyone knowing that Jenred is insane on the Far East. (Everyone does know that right?) but more just showing the character's personality.

As long as a reasonable explanation is given as to how someone knows information, especially if it was sent in an RP then I am fine with them knowing. If I cared as much as a player about no one knowing I would have never written an RP about it. But, I want my roleplays to promote positive game interaction instead of non-interaction or breakdown of all roleplay.

P.S. If someone wants to give me a detailed explanation of how they feel I'm in the wrong or better understand how to fix what I'm doing to help the player base more, feel free to send me a private message on the forums or in game. (OOC). Even if just to explain some of your points more than is possible in a forum setting, I'm quite open to criticism.

[egamma]

I just don't see how what I did was wrong though. I RP'ed a narrative of my character which explained the reasons for his actions. As a player I don't mind if people figure out that he was the one who set the bounty.

If you don't mind, then why did you force it down their throats? You have prevented the guessing game.

The only part I mind, is if people say that he set the bounty without even RP'ing reasoning behind it. My character is easily one of the top suspects for the bounty placement and logic used to relay that would be quite acceptable. However, if asked: "How do you know?" and they don't have a good response, then that is where the problem is.

And there's the problem that Slapsticks described. You are penalizing the guessers.

[De-Legro]

Besides which RP is a choice. Other players should not be forced to RP and write narratives to suit someone else's requirements. Forcing someone to partake in a element of the game they have no interest in simply to defend themselves against accusations of OOC knowledge, or to comply with your desire to have people reply in kind is wrong and harmful to the retention of players.

[Bedwyr]

If you don't mind, then why did you force it down their throats? You have prevented the guessing game.

You're kidding, right?  He sent an RP, one I and I'm sure others enjoyed reading, in an RP game, to all of the relevant people who might be interested in it, and he's now being attacked for this?

This isn't anything like everyone knowing that Jenred is insane on the Far East. (Everyone does know that right?)

I sure hope so.  I've done my best to make it clear.

[egamma]

You're kidding, right?  He sent an RP, one I and I'm sure others enjoyed reading, in an RP game, to all of the relevant people who might be interested in it, and he's now being attacked for this?

He's being attacked for being upset for IC information that he is sending to other players could be used against his character. After all, he placed a bounty--anyone can claim to have seen him do so.

He needs to accept the consequences of his own decision to send the RP. Nothing more, nothing less.