Author Topic: Abuse of religion  (Read 8857 times)

egamma

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Abuse of religion
« Topic Start: January 13, 2012, 03:24:36 PM »
I just noticed this today:
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You have reached the medium temple of the order "The Path Of Chivalry". There is a sign next to the entrance reading:
The Path Of Chivalry
The first organization of Oritolon, we are not what you might call a true religion.
The path of chivalry offers protection from enemy religions while supporting the beliefs of power and goodness in Oritolon
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This bugs me...seems athiestic, for one. And it says that they exist just to prevent enemy religions from being used against them.

Perth

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Re: Abuse of religion
« Reply #1: January 13, 2012, 03:37:23 PM »
 :P
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Ramiel

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Re: Abuse of religion
« Reply #2: January 13, 2012, 03:41:29 PM »
If its not on Dwilight, its unfortunately allowed no? Which does seem a darn shame.
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Indirik

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Re: Abuse of religion
« Reply #3: January 13, 2012, 04:34:41 PM »
Religion for self-defense is how quite a few religions got formed. It is still very common, if not so blatantly advertised.
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egamma

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Re: Abuse of religion
« Reply #4: January 13, 2012, 05:35:18 PM »
Religion for self-defense is how quite a few religions got formed. It is still very common, if not so blatantly advertised.

Sure, but they should at least pretend to be a real religion.

Barthalomeus

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Re: Abuse of religion
« Reply #5: January 13, 2012, 09:13:04 PM »
Yeah that's not okay in my book.

What bugs me are the "atheist" or agnostic nobles in BM. Completely unrealistic. Everybody believed in something in the Middle ages, whether it was your personal house gods, some great pantheon, or the Judeo-Christian God.

Anyways, I don't think the great Tee-hom will intervene here unless it's on Dwilght.

songqu88@gmail.com

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Re: Abuse of religion
« Reply #6: January 13, 2012, 10:20:12 PM »
Hmmmm...anyone here a professor of Medieval Studies and/or European Religious Studies?

I seem to recall rare instances of persecution against atheists in Medieval Europe...

Can't persecute something if it doesn't exist?

Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Abuse of religion
« Reply #7: January 14, 2012, 01:18:52 AM »
I have to agree with Artemesia, it seems to me that people are making sweeping generalizations that they shouldn't be making...

De-Legro

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Re: Abuse of religion
« Reply #8: January 14, 2012, 01:39:46 AM »
From good old wikipedia

" Philosophical atheist thought appears in Europe and Asia from the sixth or fifth century BCE."

"n medieval Islam, scholars recognized the idea of atheism, and frequently attacked unbelievers, although they were unable to name any atheists.[26] When individuals were accused of atheism, they were usually viewed as heretics rather than proponents of atheism.[27] One notable figure was the ninth century scholar Ibn al-Rawandi who criticized the notion of religious prophecy including that of Muhammad, and maintained that religious dogmas were not acceptable to reason and must be rejected.[28] Other critics of religion in the Islamic world include the physician and philosopher Abu Bakr al-Razi (865–925), and the poet Al-Ma`arri (973–1057).
In the European Middle Ages, no clear expression of atheism is known. The titular character of the Icelandic saga Hrafnkell, written in the late thirteenth century, says that I think it is folly to have faith in gods. After his temple to Freyr is burnt and he is enslaved, he vows never to perform another sacrifice, a position described in the sagas as goðlauss "godless". Jacob Grimm in his Teutonic Mythology observes that
It is remarkable that Old Norse legend occasionally mentions certain men who, turning away in utter disgust and doubt from the heathen faith, placed their reliance on their own strength and virtue. Thus in the Sôlar lioð 17 we read of Vêbogi and Râdey â sik þau trûðu, "in themselves they trusted",[29]
citing several other examples, including two kings.
In Christian Europe, people were persecuted for heresy, especially in countries where the Inquisition was active. However, Thomas Aquinas' five proofs of God's existence and Anselm's ontological argument implicitly acknowledged the validity of the question about god's existence. The charge of atheism was used as way of attacking one's political or religious enemies. Pope Boniface VIII, because he insisted on the political supremacy of the church, was accused by his enemies after his death of holding (unlikely) atheistic positions such as "neither believing in the immortality nor incorruptibility of the soul, nor in a life to come."[30]"

Of course it is wikipedia as a source, I don't have time right now to check the validity of the sources or the interpretations.
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Draco Tanos

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Re: Abuse of religion
« Reply #9: January 14, 2012, 06:11:20 AM »
Honestly, it's likely that those professing atheism or agnosticism in game should be viewed as touched in the head and not fit to take care of themselves, let alone command troops or rule over regions or kingdoms.

Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Abuse of religion
« Reply #10: January 14, 2012, 06:16:40 AM »
Yes, but it should be taken care of IC. Not some arbitrary OOC ban of it.

Norrel

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Re: Abuse of religion
« Reply #11: January 14, 2012, 06:19:42 AM »
Yes, but it should be taken care of IC. Not some arbitrary OOC ban of it.
People are too pragmatic in the way they deal with religion ingame. Most people would simply tolerate it, which is why Tom enforces the rule.
What's more, I don't think I can name a single member of European high nobility that professed to atheism, especially since it was through "divine right" that they ruled in the first place.
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Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Abuse of religion
« Reply #12: January 14, 2012, 06:35:04 AM »
The emperors of the Holy Roman Empire were elected (not by the common populace, of course). So don't give me that Divine Right crap. It wasn't completely true.

Draco Tanos

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Re: Abuse of religion
« Reply #13: January 14, 2012, 07:53:27 AM »
Elected by people who believed they had Divine Right themselves...  Which would make the Emperor most obviously backed by God.

De-Legro

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Re: Abuse of religion
« Reply #14: January 14, 2012, 09:45:14 AM »
The emperors of the Holy Roman Empire were elected (not by the common populace, of course). So don't give me that Divine Right crap. It wasn't completely true.

And backed by the Pope ( depending on the age) If that enough to claim divine right I don't know what is. However that said, the concept of divine right was developed about midway through the medieval era. Before that good old might is right was enough.
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