Hot Swapping Religion

[De-Legro]

I'm looking for opinions for the following Scenario

Player is a member of religion A. They are made lord of a region, and immediately tear down a temple belonging to religion B. He encountered resistance after this, so Religion B offer him some gold, he leaves religion A, joins religion B and rebuilds the temple before leaving religion B to rejoin religion A again. I understand that game mechanics prevent him from being able to rebuild the temple unless he is a member, but religion is supposed to mean something to nobles as well. Keep in mind this occurred on Dwilight.

[Vellos]

I'd say bring it up as a formal case, honestly. The Magistrates briefly discussed judging SMA complaints in the Backroom; some were opposed to it, but enough supported it that I'd think it was worthwhile to bring up formally.

[De-Legro]

I'd say bring it up as a formal case, honestly. The Magistrates briefly discussed judging SMA complaints in the Backroom; some were opposed to it, but enough supported it that I'd think it was worthwhile to bring up formally.

I know only of the matter from IRC. I saw a member of my religion leave the religion then rejoin the next day. A IRC conversation filled in the details for me.

[Geronus]

I'd say bring it up as a formal case, honestly. The Magistrates briefly discussed judging SMA complaints in the Backroom; some were opposed to it, but enough supported it that I'd think it was worthwhile to bring up formally.

We discussed it, but as I recall there was no conclusion, and no decision from Tom either. At present our mandate does not include SMA violations. Anything SMA related should be reported to the Titans.

Personally I think you have a pretty good case.

[De-Legro]

We discussed it, but as I recall there was no conclusion, and no decision from Tom either. At present our mandate does not include SMA violations. Anything SMA related should be reported to the Titans.

Personally I think you have a pretty good case.

Except I have little interest in starting a case. I am much more interested in opinions on the matter. The general opinion I have encountered is that it was justified, since game mechanics allowed no other way for the Lord to rebuild what he tore down.

[egamma]

"France is worth a Mass"

[Tom]

On SMA matters, the question to ask is: Can you imagine a real medieval nobleman doing this?

[vonGenf]

"France is worth a Mass"

...and then Henri IV was a catholic forever after.

[Indirik]

The general opinion I have encountered is that it was justified, since game mechanics allowed no other way for the Lord to rebuild what he tore down.

Just because it's the only way to do something doesn't mean that it's not abusive, or against the spirit of the game.

If you want your friend and realm-mate to collect the extravagant bounty on your character so the enemy doesn't claim it, is it OK to move to a region with no other troops, disband your unit , and let your buddy stab you?

[Vellos]

Is there an H/P penalty for leaving a religion?

[Anaris]

Just because it's the only way to do something doesn't mean that it's not abusive, or against the spirit of the game.

To provide another example, more closely related and officially judged to be abusive:

Noble A wants to found a religion, and for RP purposes, it is desirable that it be founded in the capital city.  Noble B, the Duke, and Noble C, the Ruler, agree on these points. With RP of the Ruler and Duke officially naming Noble A as some sort of official delegate of the Duke (I forget the exact language used), Noble B steps down, Noble C appoints Noble A as Duke, Noble A founds the religion (thus stepping down), and Noble C reappoints Noble B as Duke.

This was reported to the Titans, and Noble C found in violation and given a 1-day lock.

Noble C, in this case, was me.

[Tom]

The problem here is that religions are way too cooperative / modern.

In the middle ages, you generally bashed in the heads of people with a different religion. Sometimes (e.g. Jews) you allowed them a couple years inbetween bashings so they could breed a little (wouldn't want to run out of heads to bash, would we?), but there was almost always bashing involved.

It's ok to have some cooperation, sometimes - we don't strictly simulate medieval Europe, only a "medieval-europe-like" world - but if your religion doesn't consider the majority of the other faiths as evil, you're doing something wrong.

And how likely is it that you'd go through some administrative trickery for the benefit of something you consider evil?

[Indirik]

I do wish more people took their religion seriously IG. We have heads of state who are elders of their faith signing alliances with other heads of state that are elders of religions that consider each other as evil.

[Vellos]

To provide another example, more closely related and officially judged to be abusive:

Noble A wants to found a religion, and for RP purposes, it is desirable that it be founded in the capital city.  Noble B, the Duke, and Noble C, the Ruler, agree on these points. With RP of the Ruler and Duke officially naming Noble A as some sort of official delegate of the Duke (I forget the exact language used), Noble B steps down, Noble C appoints Noble A as Duke, Noble A founds the religion (thus stepping down), and Noble C reappoints Noble B as Duke.

This was reported to the Titans, and Noble C found in violation and given a 1-day lock.

Noble C, in this case, was me.

I would imagine that was done because of the long-standing policy against placeholder positions? Maybe not, but that would be my first thought. The current case doesn't involve placeholders/appointments, so it doesn't seem quite the same.

I'm actually not sure how I would rule about it, hence why I'd like to see a formal case started.

[Sacha]

I think the problem is that there are just too many religions in BM. If you have to be at odds with all of them, then you'd have no time for anything else. I'd much prefer 3-4 major religions per island, rather than the 1 religion for every realm crap we have on most islands now.