Author Topic: The Demise of Fontan  (Read 5102 times)

Zakilevo

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Re: The Demise of Fontan
« Reply #30: May 27, 2012, 08:46:28 PM »
Well at least that stupid demoralization thing is gone now. Wait is it gone?

Uzamaki

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Re: The Demise of Fontan
« Reply #31: May 27, 2012, 08:50:53 PM »
Well at least that stupid demoralization thing is gone now. Wait is it gone?

Yes. They are planning on using other methods to make us kill each other.

Indirik

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Re: The Demise of Fontan
« Reply #32: May 27, 2012, 10:12:40 PM »
You people have some really weird, revisionist views of history.

Sirion's proposal to have Westmoor betray Fontan was not made up, or propaganda, or anything of the sort. The ruler that took over after Doc Primus left (I forget his name, some long-time Sirionites probably remember) made a proposal to Westmoor that they betray their peace treaty with Fontan and take some Fontan lands. This is not made up. It is well-known fact.

That is one reason Perdan joined the war against Sirion. We were also impressed at Fontan's honorable dealings with us during the war, their willingness to let the Westmoor duchy go without endless bitterness and squabbling, and their friendship with Westmoor. Add all that on to the fact that we *still* owed Sirion a few black eyes, and wanted to bust them up, and you have all the reasons you need for war.

Perdan was not suffering from TMP penalties at the time. (Was there even TMP in the game back then?) We wanted a war to fight, and we had every legitimate reason you can ask for to want to fight Sirion.
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Uzamaki

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Re: The Demise of Fontan
« Reply #33: May 27, 2012, 10:22:02 PM »
You people have some really weird, revisionist views of history.

Sirion's proposal to have Westmoor betray Fontan was not made up, or propaganda, or anything of the sort. The ruler that took over after Doc Primus left (I forget his name, some long-time Sirionites probably remember) made a proposal to Westmoor that they betray their peace treaty with Fontan and take some Fontan lands. This is not made up. It is well-known fact.

That is one reason Perdan joined the war against Sirion. We were also impressed at Fontan's honorable dealings with us during the war, their willingness to let the Westmoor duchy go without endless bitterness and squabbling, and their friendship with Westmoor. Add all that on to the fact that we *still* owed Sirion a few black eyes, and wanted to bust them up, and you have all the reasons you need for war.

Perdan was not suffering from TMP penalties at the time. (Was there even TMP in the game back then?) We wanted a war to fight, and we had every legitimate reason you can ask for to want to fight Sirion.

Seems Neji drunk the Sirion propaganda Kool-Aid then. And Handow was his name.

Zakilevo

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Re: The Demise of Fontan
« Reply #34: May 27, 2012, 11:16:05 PM »
This is why you should never try to make dirty deals behind people's back. Handow was an idiot at the time. I don't know what he was afraid of :p.

I think things are side tracking too much. We should go back to talking about the demise of Fontan or should lock this thread.

feyeleanor

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Re: The Demise of Fontan
« Reply #35: May 28, 2012, 12:14:56 AM »
Well there's not really much to say. Fontan was given a second chance at life by finding a way to both abandon the Sultanate to its fate under the fiction that Sirion would at least offer the Sultan a chance to discuss terms. We basically surrendered the Duchy of Karbala to salve our misplaced sense of honour.

If Rhidhana could have convinced the Assembly to just dump the elf-hating idiots she would and the war with Westmoor probably wouldn't have happened - or at least it wouldn't have been Fontan which started it.

But hey, when you've been at war for 3+ OOC years your sense of perspective is bound to be screwed.

It'll be interesting to see how many of the older Fontan families will stay in EC and where they mostly settle.

Ketchum

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Re: The Demise of Fontan
« Reply #36: May 28, 2012, 02:52:09 AM »
Goodbye Fontan!  :'( From my character Brock Ketchum, Fontan Banker. Or should be known as next to the last Fontan Banker.

Yes, Fontan demise is due to internal as well as external conflicts. The realm Diplomacy quite hazy and there are few allies left. Especially after Asena demise and Westmoor pulling out of war against Sirion. Fontan allied with Ibladesh, does not bring Fontan any Good Cookies with Caligus and Perdan ;D
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Indirik

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Re: The Demise of Fontan
« Reply #37: May 28, 2012, 03:03:21 AM »
The realm Diplomacy quite hazy and there are few allies left. Especially after Asena demise and Westmoor pulling out of war against Sirion. Fontan allied with Ibladesh, does not bring Fontan any Good Cookies with Caligus and Perdan ;D
I tried for a couple months to get Fontan to try making friends with *anyone*. But all I could get was reasons why they hated each of them. It was painfully obvious that the next war Fontan was in, they would be all on their own, and that they would be the weaker realm. Their ruler was completely inactive, and the Assembly never did anything. It's no surprise that things turned out the way they did. When I joined Fontan I was hopeful that we would be working to rebuild and retool the realm. Instead, everyone was burned out.
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feyeleanor

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Re: The Demise of Fontan
« Reply #38: May 28, 2012, 03:47:22 AM »
When I joined Fontan I was hopeful that we would be working to rebuild and retool the realm. Instead, everyone was burned out.

Sums it up pretty well. Those of us who knew what had to be done to rebuild the infrastructure just got on with the job but the rest of the realm went to pieces. Under Sangah and Lyzekiel we had months where there was no meaningful discussion in the MoD and no orders being issued to marshals so discipline evaporated. And neither had any grasp of geopolitics: we could easily have sent a small force of advisors north to aid Nivemus and speed their expansion: priests to quell dissent; diplomats to boost their popularity and heroes to tell a few tales. Instead we did nothing.

There was also good money to be had selling food to Ashforth which our traders ignored and the usual problems with monsters and undead along Sirion's southern borders that could have mended fences. I don't think it's coincidental that my characters are welcome in both realms as they seem to have been the only Fontanese who made an effort to visit either on anything like a regular basis or even to exchange pleasantries with their respective governments.

Peri

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Re: The Demise of Fontan
« Reply #39: May 30, 2012, 03:44:26 PM »
You people have some really weird, revisionist views of history.

Sirion's proposal to have Westmoor betray Fontan was not made up, or propaganda, or anything of the sort. The ruler that took over after Doc Primus left (I forget his name, some long-time Sirionites probably remember) made a proposal to Westmoor that they betray their peace treaty with Fontan and take some Fontan lands. This is not made up. It is well-known fact.

That is one reason Perdan joined the war against Sirion. We were also impressed at Fontan's honorable dealings with us during the war, their willingness to let the Westmoor duchy go without endless bitterness and squabbling, and their friendship with Westmoor. Add all that on to the fact that we *still* owed Sirion a few black eyes, and wanted to bust them up, and you have all the reasons you need for war.

Perdan was not suffering from TMP penalties at the time. (Was there even TMP in the game back then?) We wanted a war to fight, and we had every legitimate reason you can ask for to want to fight Sirion.

Wait, there is one point which is not completely correct. At a certain time Sirion Perdan Caligus Westmoor and OR were at war against Fontan/SoA. Discussions for a peace were becoming increasingly lengthy mostly because of Sirion's stubborness due to two points: 1) Perdan Caligus and Westmoor didn't care about the fate of OR and did not want to include them in the treaty, where Sirion pushed for it. 2) Sirion requests for itself, but mostly for OR, were quite unreasonable given the performances in the war and the current geopolitical scenario, but were motivated mostly by the bitterness for having lost a lot.

It was at that moment that Sirion tried to "sell" his "ally" (where really quotes means we allied just to fight together more than else) Westmoor to Fontan, trying to somehow come out with a proposal which would allow SoA to remain large but without shrinking OR (mainly, redeploy SoA and Fontan within Westmoor or something like that).

This proposal was forwarded by Zadek to Westmoor Caligus and Perdan, which led them rightfully to super anger and convinced them to dump Sirion and OR entirely and make their own separate peace. 

After a considerable amount of time (real life months at least), Westmoor suddenly decided they wanted to join the war against Sirion but, instead of trying to base such a decision on the old attempt by Sirion to sell them, they went all the way through crazy and super artificial claims (like the fact Sirion kidnapped their old king. wtf?) which basically revealed the fact they were being hit by TMP and were looking for some kind of war - possibly one which would not put them at stake. Only after a bit of time - and some changes in rulership - Westmoor more or less cohesively aligned behind the more reasonable claim of kicking Sirion's nuts because of their past behaviour while helping Fontan with which they had built an alliance over time. Perdan then backed them up as Indirik said. During all this time it was indeed Handow the ruler of Sirion, as Uzamaki said.

Some people in Sirion really never forgive Westmoor for what they did, since from what transpired publicly, they went to war without any reason and opened up the 5v1 war against Sirion.

Indirik

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Re: The Demise of Fontan
« Reply #40: May 30, 2012, 04:28:36 PM »
I seem to vaguely recall something about an RPd kidnapping, now that you mention it. I don't recall how exactly it fit in. That was several years ago.
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Iltaran

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Re: The Demise of Fontan
« Reply #41: June 01, 2012, 07:17:06 AM »
Now that I think back on it, I might've been around (albeit in larval form) when Westmoor declared war on Sirion.

From most hazy memory the internal justification was supporting our allies Fontan and Asena ...if so that turned out well...
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Draco Tanos

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Re: The Demise of Fontan
« Reply #42: June 01, 2012, 07:56:12 AM »
Nope.  Joined under Micna (several days from each other), so Westmoor had been at war with Sirion for at least 2 months by that point, if not longer.