The Zuma

[Shizzle]

not some shmuck who signed up with a fake nick to mess with you ;)

Why didn't I think of that :(

And were the daimons really on Dwilight since ...forever? Awesome.

[Chenier]

As Artemesia posted for me while ago.

A lot of talk since then seems to ignore this but it says all that needs saying. Everything the Zuma have done has been due to interaction with players. Just because individuals do not know all the details does not give you the right to spread misinformation to the other players. No I will not be explaining any of the actions in an Out of Character forum.
If you are going to make statements about the Zuma or the GM behind them, make sure you have facts to back you up.
As I said before everything is done for a reason and has been done due to interaction with players.
Thank you.

I don't really care that you "had reasons". The way it was done was extremely lame, and the mysterious reasons sound like a bunch of bullocks to me, as while I'm not saying you are lying about there being reasons, there's nothing that indicates to me that they were any good. I've seen GMs do many really stupid things, and not necessarily because they were stupid people. I don't see this as being any different.

That you ask that we "back up" our claims while you content yourself with giving none for yours is just plain out hypocrisy. I'm sorry for being rude, but I've just gotten OOC tired of the Zuma long ago. Everything past the first interactions I was part of or witnessed has been extremely lame on your part.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

By now you are just using this thread to vent your OOC frustrations. Please pollute the minds of players either as a character in-game, or keep it to yourself now. What needs to be said has been said...twice. If you have any further complaints, I suggest you go find something else to occupy your time, as it seems clearer now that it is not a GM's fantasy that is the problem, but you seem to have your own fantasy about the Zuma and your ability to interact with them.

I've seen your attempted interaction. I believe your character waltzed into Ruins of Walfurgisnacht around the time Asriel was there. I can even dig up the message too. Your character basically said "Haktoo, I know your master is here. I want to talk to him." Yeah, now if anything's lame, your misled belief that your character is some superhuman who will never know fear is pretty lame. People are supposed to feel strange if they enter uninvited into Zuma lands. They are supposed to curl up into a ball and cry for death to take them away. They are supposed to scream in agony over whether their body is their own to control anymore, or ever was in the first place. Yeah, I know about your interactions with Vates too. Good for you. Vates was particularly nice, wasn't this obvious?

Seriously, buck your own stupid perceptions of what the Zuma are before you start complaining again.

[Antonine]

"I've seen your attempted interaction. I believe your character waltzed into Ruins of Walfurgisnacht around the time Asriel was there. I can even dig up the message too. Your character basically said "Haktoo, I know your master is here. I want to talk to him." Yeah, now if anything's lame, your misled belief that your character is some superhuman who will never know fear is pretty lame. People are supposed to feel strange if they enter uninvited into Zuma lands. They are supposed to curl up into a ball and cry for death to take them away. They are supposed to scream in agony over whether their body is their own to control anymore, or ever was in the first place. Yeah, I know about your interactions with Vates too. Good for you. Vates was particularly nice, wasn't this obvious?"

Well, that's how he got to speak to them last time. And it's not just Vates we had friendly interactions with - we also were visited and RP'd with Custos.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

For good reason mind you. I would like to refer you to Ira and Agri, both Vates' kin. Contrast them with Vates, and even Custos. Now, contrast Vates and Custos with Flame, the silent destroyer cloaked in fire, or Screamer, the large maw that bellows with ear-shattering shrieks. Yeah, you know the deal about having PR representatives. That's basically the case. You seem to be shocked for some strange reason upon discovering that daimons aren't all buddy-buddy and amiable and easy to talk to as you might have thought.

[Geronus]

By now you are just using this thread to vent your OOC frustrations. Please pollute the minds of players either as a character in-game, or keep it to yourself now. What needs to be said has been said...twice. If you have any further complaints, I suggest you go find something else to occupy your time, as it seems clearer now that it is not a GM's fantasy that is the problem, but you seem to have your own fantasy about the Zuma and your ability to interact with them.

I've seen your attempted interaction. I believe your character waltzed into Ruins of Walfurgisnacht around the time Asriel was there. I can even dig up the message too. Your character basically said "Haktoo, I know your master is here. I want to talk to him." Yeah, now if anything's lame, your misled belief that your character is some superhuman who will never know fear is pretty lame. People are supposed to feel strange if they enter uninvited into Zuma lands. They are supposed to curl up into a ball and cry for death to take them away. They are supposed to scream in agony over whether their body is their own to control anymore, or ever was in the first place. Yeah, I know about your interactions with Vates too. Good for you. Vates was particularly nice, wasn't this obvious?

Seriously, buck your own stupid perceptions of what the Zuma are before you start complaining again.

You know, while I don't care for Chenier's tone, I agree with him in principle. What is the point of having NPCs if they take away from the experience of the players? I mean, they are there to ENRICH our experience, right? Not just to entertain the GMs? Because honestly I don't see where getting attacked with no explanation adds to the experience. I understand that there was a reason; that's not my problem. My problem is that no explanation was ever given, even as an RP. Who cares if there was a reason when you'll (apparently) NEVER KNOW WHAT IT WAS? To the player it was just a random, pointless act of destruction that screwed him over. How does that enrich the game? How does that add to the player experience in *any* way? IT DOESN'T. It just leads to frustration, frustration which has been clearly communicated in this thread by players who were affected by these events. That is the only thing that should really matter here - are the Zuma adding to the Dwilight experience, or taking away from it?

[De-Legro]

You know, while I don't care for Chenier's tone, I agree with him in principle. What is the point of having NPCs if they take away from the experience of the players? I mean, they are there to ENRICH our experience, right? Not just to entertain the GMs? Because honestly I don't see where getting attacked with no explanation adds to the experience. I understand that there was a reason; that's not my problem. My problem is that no explanation was ever given, even as an RP. Who cares if there was a reason when you'll (apparently) NEVER KNOW WHAT IT WAS? To the player it was just a random, pointless act of destruction that screwed him over. How does that enrich the game? How does that add to the player experience in *any* way? IT DOESN'T. It just leads to frustration, frustration which has been clearly communicated in this thread by players who were affected by these events. That is the only thing that should really matter here - are the Zuma adding to the Dwilight experience, or taking away from it?

For those of us that dig a bit deeper and don't allow our preconceptions to blind us to what might just be going on yes. Juan has a lot of fun collecting what info is available about the Zuma and trying to piece together what their goals are.

[Zuma GM]

Some who try to interact with the Zuma are responded to. Some aren't. This is not some whim, there is reason behind it which is quite clear and obvious if people bother to try and work it out.
I am not going to change the character of the Zuma because some people are frustrated they seem to get nothing from them or do not understand the point of them. Nor am I going to explain in Out of Character forums the reasons behind actions that some players are fully aware of.
If you want answers and interaction from the Zuma, learn how to deal with them and find out in game. Remember, you came to the Zuma first, they did not go to visit the humans. Also remember that it is not just some human realm run in the same way as human realms.

[Geronus]

For those of us that dig a bit deeper and don't allow our preconceptions to blind us to what might just be going on yes. Juan has a lot of fun collecting what info is available about the Zuma and trying to piece together what their goals are.

Honestly I have had zero interactions with the Zuma. I have no preconceptions about them specifically, IC or otherwise. I *do* have preconceptions about what the purpose of an NPC realm should be in a game like this. And in my opinion, they are not serving a constructive purpose if they are not enriching the game for the people that do interact with them. It is easy for a player whose character resides far from the Zuma to enjoy the lore and mystery that they represent. It is far more difficult to appreciate that mystery when you live next door and the Zuma show up to torch your city without even an RP to add a little richness to the experience of having your realm torn down.

[De-Legro]

Honestly I have had zero interactions with the Zuma. I have no preconceptions about them specifically, IC or otherwise. I *do* have preconceptions about what the purpose of an NPC realm should be in a game like this. And in my opinion, they are not serving a constructive purpose if they are not enriching the game for the people that do interact with them. It is easy for a player whose character resides far from the Zuma to enjoy the lore and mystery that they represent. It is far more difficult to appreciate that mystery when you live next door and the Zuma show up to torch your city without even an RP to add a little richness to the experience of having your realm torn down.

Juan stared in D'hara. Like I earlier said, I was in the region when Terran was attacked by the Zuma, the Zuma passed through the region he was visiting at the time. It was that event that sparked Juan's interest. Like the GM says, those that truly interact with the Zuma get much from it, but they have spent the time to work out the first riddle, just how to approach the Zuma. Once you are past that first hurdle things open up.

[Zuma GM]

Honestly I have had zero interactions with the Zuma. I have no preconceptions about them specifically, IC or otherwise. I *do* have preconceptions about what the purpose of an NPC realm should be in a game like this. And in my opinion, they are not serving a constructive purpose if they are not enriching the game for the people that do interact with them. It is easy for a player whose character resides far from the Zuma to enjoy the lore and mystery that they represent. It is far more difficult to appreciate that mystery when you live next door and the Zuma show up to torch your city without even an RP to add a little richness to the experience of having your realm torn down.

I have issues with people that spread misinformation about things as well. There were accompanying RP. Before during and after the event, including the march to the city when there may have only been one or two player characters to read the RPs. There was also discussion directly with some people within the realm at that time, which is the reason the Daimons left.
As I said. Everything has been done due to interaction with the players and anyone that implies anything different is not speaking true.

[Geronus]

Some who try to interact with the Zuma are responded to. Some aren't. This is not some whim, there is reason behind it which is quite clear and obvious if people bother to try and work it out.
I am not going to change the character of the Zuma because some people are frustrated they seem to get nothing from them or do not understand the point of them. Nor am I going to explain in Out of Character forums the reasons behind actions that some players are fully aware of.
If you want answers and interaction from the Zuma, learn how to deal with them and find out in game. Remember, you came to the Zuma first, they did not go to visit the humans. Also remember that it is not just some human realm run in the same way as human realms.

I get this, and honestly, I am not trying to attack you. I believe you when you say that there are reasons for everything. I have mainly been soured on the entire concept of NPCs in this game. They're too powerful, with too little return for the players in exchange for having to deal with NPC factions that can laugh at your armies and can, on a whim, tear down everything you have spent years building. I played the fourth invasion, and honestly I didn't care for it. BT was in a great place before it began, with an awesome continent-wide war. Now look at it - depleted player base with realms unable to go to war and expand due to lack of nobles DESPITE a massive loss of territory to the blight. We barely get any immigrants even, a fact which I partially chalk up to the sheer magnitude of the destruction. Those players whose favorite realms and characters are gone beyond the hope of reclamation have simply left for good, and won't likely be coming back any time soon. And what was gained in return? The barest hints of this deep, seemingly rich storyline, which thanks to a certain OBSESSION with secrecy will likely never be revealed in any meaningful way to the vast majority of players who suffered and lost so much in the course of it.

I joined BT because I thought the invasions would be fun. I was wrong, but now I am invested in the characters I have there. I will say this - if the realms on BT that I currently play in are ever lost to, say, the next invasion, I won't return either, and if I hadn't enjoyed what happened before the invasion so much I probably wouldn't have even stayed this long - I just hope we are able to build it back to some semblance of what it was. I have put time and effort into those realms, but I feel like I'm wasting it on the possibility that they will be completely destroyed in the next invasion by some GM's fit of pique without any explanation or fulfillment in the end.

As a result of all this, I sympathize with the neighbors of the Zuma, and I sincerely hope that they will remain an isolated curiosity. I really wish that they didn't exist at all. On BT you at least knew you were getting the invasions. The Zuma were sprung on us without warning.

[Zuma GM]

The Zuma were 'sprung' on nobody. the Zuma have been on Dwilight from the first few weeks of the Island's existence. The only involvement they have had with players has been initiated by players. Before choosing to sympathise with the neighbours of the Zuma, perhaps you should talk to them all and actually find out whether they need any sympathy or not.
Again, Out of Character negative speculation and misinformation serves no useful purpose to anyone.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Can someone verify if this actually happened. In the beginning of Dwilight a couple of humans travelled to the Zuma with the intention of joining them and the Zuma told them to instead go off into the world and found two religions instead. I was wondering if it happened or if it was an idea.  I do know it has a semblance of fact because I met one of the men but it was a long time ago and I am not sure if he did what he said he was told to do.

[Chenier]

I have issues with people that spread misinformation about things as well. There were accompanying RP. Before during and after the event, including the march to the city when there may have only been one or two player characters to read the RPs. There was also discussion directly with some people within the realm at that time, which is the reason the Daimons left.
As I said. Everything has been done due to interaction with the players and anyone that implies anything different is not speaking true.

I believe I was greeted the daimons before they even entered out lands. One thing you should keep in mind when reading my posts is that I tend to overemphasize. My apologies, it's just stronger than me.

When I said "basically no interaction", I did not mean there were 0 messages or RPs. However, what was received was very short. A handful of one-liners, if I recall correctly, aside from the threat to Asriel and call for revenge for the insults (which came after the main acts). What I truly meant was that the RPs and messages coming from the Zuma was nowhere near satisfactory levels for the importance of the act, from an OOC perspective.

My expectations towards GMs is higher than towards players wielding equivalent power, as they were given power from above without building it up themselves, and as thus such an act can only be justified if it increases the overall fun for everyone and if this fun factor is properly maximized.