Balance of features and functionality

[songqu88@gmail.com]

With some of the feature requests, most recently involving religion, infiltrators, and secret societies, it seems as though most of these come from experienced players who already know or mastered the basics, like getting an oath, setting estates, recruiting a unit, setting deployment stuff, getting paraphernalia, the different classes, etc.

But, how many make their suggestions with new players in mind? I am not saying that no one does this, but it is easy to forget how tough the learning curve can be in BM, myself included. It took me a full year before I actually figured out how to do much more than go to regions with my unit at certain settings, and this was in 2007 when we still had the old battle system, the old class system, no seasons, bankers could manage food movement, and in general, life was simpler. Now, if I were to imagine myself knowing nothing about BM, I would probably feel lost amidst all the info that needs to be absorbed to have success at any facet of this game.

While this is not necessarily a bad thing, when we make new suggestions, we could be mindful of what the goals of the proposed changes are. How would they add to the game, to all players? Would the added complexity or lowered complexity benefit or detract from the enjoyment of new and veteran players? This is all just speaking generally, but it is something that I think should be addressed and kept in mind. Many of us here have been playing for several years and we know what we want to see. Equally important as veteran players are potential new players who will become the future base of this game. As such, some things we might want to be simple enough so that newer players can enjoy it without needing to spend hours reading guides or asking mentors, but also deep enough to maintain interest.

[De-Legro]

BM mechanic wise is really not that complex. Maybe that opinion is because I come from an age of PBeM and ASCII games, or maybe because unlike most people I love to read manuals. You also need to remember that many facets of the game simple aren't OPEN to new players.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Well then, what *is* open to newer players, and should that be the target amount? New options popping up are still new no matter how long one has played, though older players may have a better time of adapting.

Still, at what point does a new player start to look at the other features? Economics, religion, government, those aren't exactly things one can learn in 5 minutes. Ok, so BM is a game that requires patience. But what was this "lightweight" game I heard about in the intro or somewhere? I'm feeling a bit heavy...

[Foundation]

I agree with Artemesia.  We need more feature changes / additions to engage and retain new players, otherwise the game cannot advance.  That is one of the reasons why we are implementing a few systems like saved messages and searchable messages so the system is easier for both new players and older players, but I would appreciate any suggestions with new players in mind, as they are certainly the future of BM.

[De-Legro]

Lightweight is a bit misleading to most. It is lightweight in that you can play it in 5 minutes a day, IF you play in a certain way. Now most players in the forum and the old D-list AREN'T this way. They want to control religions, be Dukes and rulers etc. That part of the game is not lightweight.

New players don't need to know about the mechanics of things like religions for some time, mostly cause the only mechanic that will be relevant to them is how to join one and take part in the discussion. They aren't going to be lords trying to found one, nor priests. The same goes for things like the economy, government etc. There is plenty of time to learn about these things before the player will have the prestige/honour/position to actually interact with them.

What new players do need to know for now

• Oaths, how to get one, what do they mean and how much gold should I get
• Messaging System
• Travel System
• Armies, what are my obligations and what one should I request I be added to
• Units, how to pick what type of unit, how to pick what RC to recruit from, what additional junk like banners do, how to ensure I don't over recruit
• How to participate further in the realm if that is what I desire

Some of this is game mechanics, some is more related to realm specific info. Within a week I had learnt this. From there I had a solid base to start learning about other features in line with the goals of my characters.

To recap, this game has not been lightweight for the more involved players/positions for quite some time, and from the developments that are underway, I doubt that there is a intent for things to be that way.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Another consideration is also the "spirit" of BM, that is, as a player versus player, massively (so I would imagine) multiplayer online turn-based strategy game. Not all wars have to be fought on the field, of course, but at the end of the day, I would assume the prevalent victory condition would be to conquer at least all the critical regions of the enemy, or destroy them, or something related to that line. Things like economy, diplomacy, religion, guilds, adventurers, these are, in my opinion, adjuncts. For the most part, they are supposed to be features that facilitate the strategies that can be employed to more or less destroy the enemy. As an out-of-game example, in Warcraft III you could level up your heroes and get them items, but no one would play the game (I'm not counting DotA or any of those custom maps) as an RPG. The point was to get your hero strong to lead your forces against your opponent.

While not a perfect analogy, a similar point I think exists for BM. You have this food stuff to deal with so that sieges can exist, and so you can pursue an economic advantage or a victory if you're so inclined, though I have no idea how one would actually achieve an economic victory in BM. The diplomacy is pretty straightforward. Designate friends and enemies. Set terms. Then go destroy enemies, aid allies. Sure there are more complex stuff in there, but it really boils down to that. Religion provides a great power to those who can use it right. Priests are some of the most annoying classes I have ever encountered, much more so than those silly infiltrators. Guilds can provide for financial organization and communication, things which are key for success in war. Courtiers keep regions happy, which is important because human-controlled regions have this thing where they kinda rebel if they are allowed to seethe in hatred for too long.

So as a summary, my opinion of the features outside battles among players is that they are facilitative adjuncts to the central and intended goal of interrealm warfare, and should serve in such a way that they do not distract from the goal of battling, or supplant it. That is not to say players can't specialize in them. Obviously we'd need specialists, just like in the real world. But, if the central goal is to battle (maybe it's not? I could be mistaken of course) then every player should be aware no matter what position they serve that they are supposed to contribute to the effort of winning against an opponent, which usually means somehow destroying/enslaving/beating down/whatever the enemy realm(s).

[De-Legro]

I can hear all the "peaceful" realms preparing a massive protests against the whole game centering on war The main problem I see with retaining players is the first 10 minutes of the game. If nobody is online to respoind to a new player joining in that time, they log off and mostly never come back.

[Telrunya]

The main problem I see with retaining players is the first 10 minutes of the game. If nobody is online to respoind to a new player joining in that time, they log off and mostly never come back.

Then what if we can somehow send an automated message to that player with a bit of delay (As a Mentor option perhaps)? That way you can interact with him right away, without having to be online and hopefully retain him long enough to reel him in

[Tom]

I can hear all the "peaceful" realms preparing a massive protests against the whole game centering on war The main problem I see with retaining players is the first 10 minutes of the game. If nobody is online to respoind to a new player joining in that time, they log off and mostly never come back.

Good riddance. BM is not the right game for people with a short attention span and need for instant gratification. They should go play something else.

[Sacha]

You can easily fix that without automated messages or other hoo-haa. Encourage the people in your realm to keep an eye open for newcomers, and greet them when they see a new arrival. The new player will (hopefully) feel welcomed and encouraged to interact, and the realm as a whole gains another noble. Everybody wins, and the devs haven't even lifted a finger.

[Anaris]

You can easily fix that without automated messages or other hoo-haa. Encourage the people in your realm to keep an eye open for newcomers, and greet them when they see a new arrival. The new player will (hopefully) feel welcomed and encouraged to interact, and the realm as a whole gains another noble. Everybody wins, and the devs haven't even lifted a finger.

We also need to make sure it is painfully clear on the "join the game" pages that you should not expect a response within a few minutes, and that that is not the type of game BattleMaster is.

[wraith]

Good riddance. BM is not the right game for people with a short attention span and need for instant gratification. They should go play something else.

I tend to agree with that sentiment but then again we understand Battlemaster; it is a slowly paced, long-term, social, character-driven game.

New players not used to this concept might not quite get it however much they might appreciate it if they gave it a chance.

I think we need to be a little more precise and targeted in how we promote BM on the JOIN page (and elsewhere on the WWW) to increase the chance of getting (and keeping) the sort of player we want by being clear what their expectations should be.. something like..

BattleMaster Is..

Lightweight: You can spend as little as 15 minutes a day and still play well.
Relaxed: The game's pace is measured in half-days, rather than seconds, minutes or hours.
Persistent: The results of the actions you take, the relationships you forge and the decisions you make can last for years.
Long-term: The game is most fulfilling when played over months or years. Some of our players have been with us for over a decade.
Immersive: The game is as much about developing interesting characters and worlds as achieving goals.
Depthful: There is always something new to learn in a richly imagined world backed by a sophisticated game system.
Social: Interaction between players is fundamental to the game and brings it's own rewards; it is the players who create the world.
Fair: We do not tolerate cheating, abuse, bullying or other anti-social actions in the game.
Evolving: We are constantly adding improvements, depth and subtlety to the game.

I don't think the learning curve and feature creep is a bad thing. Even after six years it keeps me interested as there is always something new to learn. The most compelling games take a minute to learn and a lifetime to master and BM fits that bill (and that's just the game system, you could spend two lifetimes gaining complete knowledge of every character, every realm, every religion). That is what keeps many people playing.

The key is to do what we can to make the curve as shallow as possible in the first week or so to fire the desire to learn and provide the reward of being able to learn.

In terms of encouraging interaction with new players.. how about every message to a player less than a week old has a "this message was useful" button. Clicking it counts towards a "Your support of new nobles has been recognised by your peers.. you gain x honour and y prestige" bonus for the sending noble. (With hints to this in the new player arrival messages to a realm). Alternately a limited supply of 'helpful' medals that new players can give other players who help them.

Incidentally.. I just realised that BM is only a lightweight game at certain timescales..
15 minutes a day is not much compared to most games. However.. 15 minutes x 365 days x 6 years = 497.75 hours*
How many games do people spend 500 hours playing in a 6 year period?
* the extra .25 hours assumes one leap-year in the six year period because someone would surely mention if I missed that ;-)

[Zakilevo]

Make a noobie only island and make them start there

[De-Legro]

Make a noobie only island and make them start there

How would that help anything, apart from making all new players start in what would probably be a waste land of inactivity?

[egamma]

Make a noobie only island and make them start there

I think that's on the "frequently suggested, frequently rejected" list. Battlemaster is a game of social interaction. Isolating players is contrary to that.

Wraith's go the right idea--if we implement everything he said, that would be a great start. Also, this page should be burned into the sign-in process: http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/BattleMaster_Basics