Cities and Duchies

[Chenier]

Agreed. I've uploaded a quick fix that should take care of some of this.

My signature now has "Duke of Paisly, Duke of Paisly", for I am both the lord of the city and the duke of the duchy. Not much of an eye-candy. :/

[De-Legro]

My signature now has "Duke of Paisly, Duke of Paisly", for I am both the lord of the city and the duke of the duchy. Not much of an eye-candy. :/

Yes, we need a new title for a Lord of a City. It is even worse for some realms that have two Dukes running around. Only way to differentiate is to actually get imaginative with the Duchy Name

[GoldPanda]

I have to say that, just reading what players are saying about the new duchy system makes my head hurt.

Why the new duchy system? Have people really been asking for the ability to split one duchy into two? To have the Duke and Lord of a city be different nobles? What does this change add to the game? Does it make the game more balanced? More fun? More realistic?

Because all I see is needless complexity that adds even more boring busy-work. I don't want to have to open up Excel worksheets just to understand my realm's feudal system.

[De-Legro]

I have to say that, just reading what players are saying about the new duchy system makes my head hurt.

Why the new duchy system? Have people really been asking for the ability to split one duchy into two? To have the Duke and Lord of a city be different nobles? What does this change add to the game? Does it make the game more balanced? More fun? More realistic?

Because all I see is needless complexity that adds even more boring busy-work. I don't want to have to open up Excel worksheets just to understand my realm's feudal system.

Now you can have two cities, or more in a single Duchy. It gives people more freedom to set up the hierarchy the way they want and add flavour to the realm. What real complexity does it add, a second title?

[Chenier]

Now you can have two cities, or more in a single Duchy.

Or *all* in a single duchy, which I predict will be the trend.

[De-Legro]

Or *all* in a single duchy, which I predict will be the trend.

If the realm is willing to let it happen, sure why not. I think there will be something eventually that makes large duchies inefficient, similar to large realms, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

[Chenier]

If the realm is willing to let it happen, sure why not. I think there will be something eventually that makes large duchies inefficient, similar to large realms, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

It's much easier to justify stuffing it all in the same duchy, as far as efficiency/security/stability goes, than to justify giving the power to !@#$ up the realm (secede) to a whole bunch of people. Whether it be good for the game experience or not. Just sayin'.

[De-Legro]

It's much easier to justify stuffing it all in the same duchy, as far as efficiency/security/stability goes, than to justify giving the power to !@#$ up the realm (secede) to a whole bunch of people. Whether it be good for the game experience or not. Just sayin'.

City Lords can still secede themselves can't they? I haven't really checked to be honest. but like I said, if people are willing to play in a realm that centralises power to that extent, power to them. There are plenty of other realms where people will fight tooth and nail to try and ensure the King has a balance of power against him.

[Chenier]

City Lords can still secede themselves can't they? I haven't really checked to be honest. but like I said, if people are willing to play in a realm that centralises power to that extent, power to them. There are plenty of other realms where people will fight tooth and nail to try and ensure the King has a balance of power against him.

Can they? I'm pretty sure that's for dukes only.

As for the concentration of power, "all that evil requires to succeed is for good men to do nothing" (or something like that). In a lightweight game, concentrating power is, in most cases, much easier to do than to prevent. Hell, even decentralization mostly only happens when the ruler decides by himself that he wants to spread the power around...

[Indirik]

City Lords can still secede themselves can't they?

No. Secession is a ducal power.

[GoldPanda]

Or *all* in a single duchy, which I predict will be the trend.

Exactly. The benefits are obvious:

1. Everyone gets their tax income in gold rather than bonds when in-realm.
2. All civil work and police work gets the in-duchy penalty rather than the harsher out-of-duchy penalty.
3. All the region lords can see status reports realm-wide instead of just for their duchy.

Even those who oppose realm centralization will find it pretty hard to argue against those benefits.

Basically, by allowing players to draw their own duchy borders, you have effectively destroyed the duchy system. Duchies will just be realms now.

If the intention was to roll back the duchy system, we should just do that. You're not really giving players additional freedom or choice when there is an obvious, optimal configuration. Everyone will scream and shout until their ruler presses the "make my realm not suck" button.

[De-Legro]

Exactly. The benefits are obvious:

1. Everyone gets their tax income in gold rather than bonds when in-realm.
2. All civil work and police work gets the in-duchy penalty rather than the harsher out-of-duchy penalty.
3. All the region lords can see status reports realm-wide instead of just for their duchy.

Even those who oppose realm centralization will find it pretty hard to argue against those benefits.

Basically, by allowing players to draw their own duchy borders, you have effectively destroyed the duchy system. Duchies will just be realms now.

If the intention was to roll back the duchy system, we should just do that. You're not really giving players additional freedom or choice when there is an obvious, optimal configuration. Everyone will scream and shout until their ruler presses the "make my realm not suck" button.

All tax is currently in Bonds, no matter where you are.

[Indirik]

Even those who oppose realm centralization will find it pretty hard to argue against those benefits.

I think you're overestimating the players' desires to min-max the game mechanics. We've already seen a couple townslands turned into duchies on Dwilight.

[Chenier]

I think you're overestimating the players' desires to min-max the game mechanics. We've already seen a couple townslands turned into duchies on Dwilight.

Well, if there's a competing desire for something else, then sure that other thing can drive for more duchies to be created. But if there's a void of ambition/projects, then few will oppose such arguments as they will have no counter-arguments of their own.

[Draco Tanos]

Doesn't tax income always show up as bonds now?  I'll have to double check my characters on tax day.