Cities and Duchies

[JPierreD]

Doesn't tax income always show up as bonds now?  I'll have to double check my characters on tax day.

All tax is currently in Bonds, no matter where you are.

[Tom]

My signature now has "Duke of Paisly, Duke of Paisly", for I am both the lord of the city and the duke of the duchy. Not much of an eye-candy. :/

Hm, it shouldn't call you a duke anymore on testing for the city region - try now, please.

[Tom]

Why the new duchy system? Have people really been asking for the ability to split one duchy into two? To have the Duke and Lord of a city be different nobles? What does this change add to the game? Does it make the game more balanced? More fun? More realistic?

Because all I see is needless complexity that adds even more boring busy-work. I don't want to have to open up Excel worksheets just to understand my realm's feudal system.

Because. Yes. Yes. A lot. Yes. I hope so. Absolutely.


The new system is actually simpler than the old one, once you accept it. In the old system, some regions were also duchies, while some were not. Some regions belonged to a duchy, while some were their own. Some regions could switch to a different duchy, some couldn't. Some region lords were also dukes, some were not. And so on.

In the new system, a region is a region is a region. Period. A region lord is a region lord, period. A duchy is a collection of regions, and has a duke.

If you try to draw the two systems down on a piece of paper, you will very, very quickly realise just how much simpler and easier to understand the new system is. The old one just seems simple because you're so used to it.

[Tom]

Basically, by allowing players to draw their own duchy borders, you have effectively destroyed the duchy system. Duchies will just be realms now.

I stopped doing hypotheticals a long time ago.

There is no movement towards centralization in the game that I can see. The number of duchies has not changed noticeably. You are drawing a scare scenario that simply is not happening. And if it ever does - it's not like we're not here and couldn't add code to make large duchies ineffective, isn't it?

As a ruler, I would definitely not want a single huge duchy. That duke would be such a threat to my power, I could basically hand him the crown right away. There are many more reasons for having multiple duchies.

[Peri]

Hm, it shouldn't call you a duke anymore on testing for the city region - try now, please.

Darius Malo, Duke of Donghaiwei, Marquis of Donghaiwei, Marshal of the Order of the Austere Star
 Katrina Dragul, Duchess of Aegir, Marchioness of Aegir
 Pierre von Genf, Duke of the First Temple, Marquis of Caiyun, Ambassador of Morek Empire

That's what titles look like for recipients of messages. Distinction between region lord and duke is now evident, even if as of now being lord of a townsland or a city is no different. (caiyun is a townsland, donghaiwei and aegir are cities)

[Lefanis]

Agreed. I've uploaded a quick fix that should take care of some of this.

I think some of this code somehow found its way to stable.

Wilhelm Altenahr, Duke of Enlod, Duke of Enlod

to - Your Duke, Brakus Stien, Duke of Ser'quea, Duke of Ser'quea, Ambassador of Helmsdale

[fodder]

Distinction between region lord and duke is now evident, even if as of now being lord of a townsland or a city is no different. (caiyun is a townsland, donghaiwei and aegir are cities)

i don't know about that... might depend on which title system the ruler picked..

eg.. on bt... riombara
town avengmil = Marquess 
town mio dupaki = Viscount
all cities = Marquess
the rest = Viscount
aside from rural lopa... which might be an earl  - position empty atm... used to say earl... don't know why... that said.. lopa was a ruler+lord combo.....

[Longmane]

I think some of this code somehow found its way to stable.

Wilhelm Altenahr, Duke of Enlod, Duke of Enlod

to - Your Duke, Brakus Stien, Duke of Ser'quea, Duke of Ser'quea, Ambassador of Helmsdale

 I've got something similar happening.

Elk longmane
General of Principality of Zonasa, Duke of Zonasa, Duke of Zonasa, Marshal of the Protectors of the Principality

[GoldPanda]

There is no movement towards centralization in the game that I can see. The number of duchies has not changed noticeably. You are drawing a scare scenario that simply is not happening. And if it ever does - it's not like we're not here and couldn't add code to make large duchies ineffective, isn't it?

Again, we instinctively punish rather than reward. How about giving bonuses to small duchies? That's the same thing, right? Why does everything have to be worded as "No! Bad player! No cookie for you!" 

I will withdraw my opinions until we have some time to experience a non-buggy version of the new duchy system, then.

And it does seem that bugs keep breaking out of the testing island barrier and gleefully start to invade stable. Yes I know I'm anthropomorphizing software bugs. 

[De-Legro]

Again, we instinctively punish rather than reward. How about giving bonuses to small duchies? That's the same thing, right? Why does everything have to be worded as "No! Bad player! No cookie for you!" 

I will withdraw my opinions until we have some time to experience a non-buggy version of the new duchy system, then.

And it does seem that bugs keep breaking out of the testing island barrier and gleefully start to invade stable. Yes I know I'm anthropomorphizing software bugs. 

Some code is shared between Testing and Stable, so at times changes needed for Testing will affect stable.

[Tom]

Some code is shared between Testing and Stable, so at times changes needed for Testing will affect stable.

Which is the main reason I want them closer together again. They were really never intended to be this far apart. A lot of stuff would've been written differently if they were.

[Chenier]

Hm, it shouldn't call you a duke anymore on testing for the city region - try now, please.

"Marquis", now.

[Draco Tanos]

As lord of Vozzessdor, I was a margrave then changed duchies and became a marquis.

[Velax]

All tax is currently in Bonds, no matter where you are.

Is that intended? If so, why?

[Solari]

Why the new duchy system? Have people really been asking for the ability to split one duchy into two? To have the Duke and Lord of a city be different nobles? What does this change add to the game? Does it make the game more balanced? More fun? More realistic?

There are so many awesome opportunities with the new system that people aren't even utilizing.  Want to create another layer between yourself and the landed nobility?  What about a "prince"/advisor/viceroyal who manages the duchy on your behalf?  Perhaps you don't trust the Marquess.  Maybe you want someone to sponsor armies or run a guild or have access to decent sums of gold for shadowy purposes.  Maybe you want to handle appointments to regions yourself.  Running out of land/estates and need to make someone happy?  Appoint a Duke!  There are endless possibilities.  With the rebalance, even towns can potentially handle having two masters.  A ruler might benefit from having a small group of loyalists as Dukes to insulate him from the multitude of landed nobles.

Of course, there's nothing that says you have to explore all of these options.  You can keep chugging along exactly as you have been.  This change to the game is, IMHO, an unalloyed good.