Author Topic: The Crusade against SA  (Read 171844 times)

Vellos

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Re: The Crusade against SA
« Reply #45: March 18, 2011, 07:22:07 AM »
Priest would be a better option, not invisible but quick to move.

Bingo.

Smuggling a few hundred/thousand gold with a priest is pretty simple work. Dwilight is a little trickier due to the larger number of 16 hour travel times, but still entirely plausible. I march my priest character up and down the continent every summer; travel for priests isn't very bad.
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Vellos

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Re: The Crusade against SA
« Reply #46: March 18, 2011, 07:25:04 AM »
Except that the intent was never anything of the kind. In fact, it was more or less to have SA band together to defend against a direct threat to the faith—which is exactly what you have given them.

Yeah, defensive alliances are never an indication of aggressive intent. Take the Delian League, for example. Obviously Athens only wanted to defend itself from the Persian Empire, not form its own empire around Greece. Or consider NATO: isn't it obvious that all it wanted to do was defend the west from the evil commies? Surely NATO never had, you know, "contingency" plans for a strike into Soviet territory?

Defensive alliances are aggressive institutions for clever diplomats.
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Shenron

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Re: The Crusade against SA
« Reply #47: March 18, 2011, 07:44:55 AM »
Why is everyone getting all hissy? SA is a huge religion, it's very existence is perceived as a threat, realms are getting together to obliterate it.

Doesn't anyone else think this is awesome?
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Igelfeld

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Re: The Crusade against SA
« Reply #48: March 18, 2011, 12:37:35 PM »
Why is everyone getting all hissy? SA is a huge religion, it's very existence is perceived as a threat, realms are getting together to obliterate it.

Doesn't anyone else think this is awesome?
Here! Here! Precisely what I was thinking.  It seems that sometimes it is difficult to simply talk about things without accusations flying.
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Anaris

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Re: The Crusade against SA
« Reply #49: March 18, 2011, 03:06:11 PM »
Why is everyone getting all hissy? SA is a huge religion, it's very existence is perceived as a threat, realms are getting together to obliterate it.

Doesn't anyone else think this is awesome?

Oh, sure, I have no problem with the basic politics of it.

I have problems with people exploiting loopholes in the game mechanics and then bragging about it.
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The Arch Saxon

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Re: The Crusade against SA
« Reply #50: March 18, 2011, 03:52:27 PM »
You're mostly notorious for gaming the mechanics. It's not a compliment when the mechanics of certain parts of the game are changed simply to stop you from exploiting them.

When have I ever exploited the game mechanics?

I though he was notorious for getting realms wiped out, and then claiming it was all part of the plan for FUN.

That too. But it wasn't intentional to get them wiped out, merely to get them to actually do something fun.

All that means is your clan was small initially, and you grew it. Congratulations. Either way, there's no way Thulsoma (or Averoth for that matter) could have come up with the kind of forces they did without exploiting *something*. The last scout report of Yggdramir tells me there's 12k CS there, and Valkyrja has level 7 walls. In a realm with two to five (depending on the time frame) incredibly poor regions? Months ago when the war started they still had 10k CS. That's *absurd*. Obviously they couldn't get close to that with only their tax gold. If they could then why isn't Asylon rocking a huge army? So... Where is the rest of it coming from?

When you have no gold, you learn to make gold by whatever means necessary, when you don't have troops, you learn to get troops and to keep them. Everything in Thulsoma was meticulously planned out and calculated, in realms like Astrum, who in a single week, produce more than Thulsoma would have in a year, you waste your gold, your troops, because it doesn't matter.  Look at Shrine Of Seeklander, you've had that region for how long? And it's still only a level three! The bottom line is, realms like Astrum piss away their gold and they never stockpile it, or use it properly.

Storms Keep was only a level two when I got it, but through a hell of a lot of hard work, sacrifice on the parts of my nobles, and a pretty much communistical approach to gold income, we built a level Seven, a system I basically incorporated from Averoth. Astrum's weekly income, is pretty much equal, if not more than the amount of gold it takes to build up several levels of a Citadel in a Stronghold. Averoth, ever since Sextus took over, has worked ridiculously hard, to get what they have built, not a single coin wasted, and extremely profitable trading allowed them to do it. To claim they got it through wrong doing it utterly ridiculous, again I will say Astrum has a ridiculously high gold income per week, so much so a thousand gold pieces or more means nothing to you, as opposed to realms like Averoth, and Thulsoma who have nothing in the way of actual income from their regions, and so must work all the harder to get gold, and to make the gold count. Are you actually trying to claim foul, because your enemies are infinitely more skilled, resourceful and hardworking than you are? Because it actually gives them a chance to stand up against you? Even with all this, Astrum can simply outfinance Averoth by far, it can produce more troops, and in a single week, produce more gold than Averoth ever will in months, and will be able to produce armies far, far larger.

So don't complain, when your enemy actually raise themselves, through hard work, determination and meticulous planning to get to where they are, when realms like Astrum, literally have it handed to them.

Out of all the players in the game, I don't know any who have invested more time than Sextus in trying to understand the game coding, and how to play the game properly, and spent so much time trying to raise a tiny, poor, weak realm to a decent realm to be in, and so it is incredibly annoying when other players, who pretty don't have to work for anything in their realms, and basically for a majority of their existence, haven't ever had to try and claim its unfair that the small, poor, weak realms actually turn themselves into something, with what little they have.


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Re: The Crusade against SA
« Reply #51: March 18, 2011, 04:29:53 PM »
Out of all the players in the game, I don't know any who have invested more time than Sextus in trying to understand the game coding, and how to play the game properly, and spent so much time trying to raise a tiny, poor, weak realm to a decent realm to be in, and so it is incredibly annoying when other players, who pretty don't have to work for anything in their realms, and basically for a majority of their existence, haven't ever had to try and claim its unfair that the small, poor, weak realms actually turn themselves into something, with what little they have.

And this, here, is the crux of the issue. This sort of power-gaming is detrimental to the game as a whole by establishing an image in the minds of players involved that there is a "best", "right", or even "correct" way of trying to win a roleplaying game designed around a concept of trust between players.
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Indirik

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Re: The Crusade against SA
« Reply #52: March 18, 2011, 05:01:34 PM »
When you have no gold, you learn to make gold by whatever means necessary, when you don't have troops, you learn to get troops and to keep them. Everything in Thulsoma was meticulously planned out and calculated, in realms like Astrum, who in a single week, produce more than Thulsoma would have in a year, you waste your gold, your troops, because it doesn't matter.

Uh.... We've worked hard to get where we are.

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Look at Shrine Of Seeklander, you've had that region for how long? And it's still only a level three! The bottom line is, realms like Astrum piss away their gold and they never stockpile it, or use it properly.

I wouldn't say that. We have a rather nice stockpile, thankyouverymuch. We also have a tendency to give gold to whoever wants it.  I mean, what fun is it to sit on 15,000 gold? Do we make sure that every coin is handed out and used in such a way as to maximize the gold:CS ratio? No. This is a game, not a job.

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Storms Keep was only a level two when I got it, but through a hell of a lot of hard work, sacrifice on the parts of my nobles, and a pretty much communistical approach to gold income, we built a level Seven, a system I basically incorporated from Averoth.

Don't forget the liberal abuses of the family gold system, including a steady stream of new accounts, new characters from existing accounts, and regular visits to family homes so you could drain their self-regenerating family gold. We're not stupid.

(And, BTW, you're not the first one to have found that loophole. I thought it had been fixed years ago. Obviously it hadn't.)

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Are you actually trying to claim foul, because your enemies are infinitely more skilled, resourceful and hardworking than you are?

Oh no. I've been beaten in wars before, and probably will be again. So long as the enemy fights fair, within the guidelines provided by the game, that's cool. When they start poking at game mechanics to find loopholes and edge-cases where they can make the system do what it wasn't intended to do, that's then the problem starts coming in.

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So don't complain, when your enemy actually raise themselves, through hard work, determination and meticulous planning to get to where they are, when realms like Astrum, literally have it handed to them.

Wow, you act like you're the only one who has ever worked hard or invested time and effort into the game. I suppose all the rest of us just wrote an e-mail to Tom and had him start handing out duchies?
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Vellos

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Re: The Crusade against SA
« Reply #53: March 18, 2011, 05:43:40 PM »
Are you actually trying to claim foul, because your enemies are infinitely more skilled, resourceful and hardworking than you are?

So don't complain, when your enemy actually raise themselves, through hard work, determination and meticulous planning to get to where they are, when realms like Astrum, literally have it handed to them.

Out of all the players in the game, I don't know any who have invested more time than Sextus in trying to understand the game coding,

1. Not infinitely. Mathematically, if we assume "skilled, resourceful and hardworking" to be a component of an equation for "victory" (which you seem so preoccupied with), any infinite multiplier should guarantee your victory. You MIGHT have been quantitatively more "skilled, resourceful and hardworking." From my outsider's perspective, it looked like you were more "bad-spirited, obnoxious, and OOC-oriented." And that's from someone who hates big realms and habitually gravitates toward tiny, fledgling powers.

2. Hard work, determination, meticulous planning, and exploitation of game code. Frankly, "hard work" at a GAME is not admirable. None of us sit down at this game and go around handing out brownie points to people who log the extra eight hours trying to derive code formulas. That is against the spirit of the game and destructive to its atmosphere. That sense of "deserving" some kind of accolade or reward for your "hard work" is nonsense in a game intended to be fully playable in 15 minutes a day. It's like being a world-champion minesweeper player: that's really not what it's about.

3. "Understanding the game coding" reads, to me, like "abuses the game." I recognize that I am probably excessively grumpy and stodgy on that issue, but that's where I stand. Don't try to game the coding, try to play the game.
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Vellos

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Re: The Crusade against SA
« Reply #54: March 18, 2011, 05:45:30 PM »
On a FAR more interesting note, I am VERY curious to see how Madina involves itself, given that Terran and D'Hara have both basically closed their borders to Madina. Maybe Madina plans to restart the war for Paisly, but that doesn't seem like it will get them very far. Caerwyn, I suspect, does not want Terran and D'Hara pushed into the Astroist camp.

If Madina sends infils and gold, though, it could play a large role.
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Telrunya

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Re: The Crusade against SA
« Reply #55: March 18, 2011, 05:54:50 PM »
Yes. Madina's options for sending troops directly are rather limited. I guess they could try via Fissoa and the Lurians, but that's yet another journey around the world.

Anaris

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Re: The Crusade against SA
« Reply #56: March 18, 2011, 06:11:55 PM »
When you have no gold, you learn to make gold by whatever means necessary, when you don't have troops, you learn to get troops and to keep them.

Being the underdog doesn't give you an automatic right to exploit game-mechanic loopholes or bugs just to get a leg up on your larger enemies.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Geronus

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Re: The Crusade against SA
« Reply #57: March 18, 2011, 06:56:50 PM »
Annnnd Rowan is dead in battle  :P. Should make for a great revenge storyline when I get around to making a new character though!

Sacha

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Re: The Crusade against SA
« Reply #58: March 18, 2011, 07:07:22 PM »
Yes. Madina's options for sending troops directly are rather limited. I guess they could try via Fissoa and the Lurians, but that's yet another journey around the world.

Given that Madina is allied to Fissoa and Fissoa is at war with PeL, that's not gonna happen I assume.

Indirik

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Re: The Crusade against SA
« Reply #59: March 18, 2011, 07:08:36 PM »
Annnnd Rowan is dead in battle  :P. Should make for a great revenge storyline when I get around to making a new character though!
:'(

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