The Crusade against SA

[Zakilevo]

SA might lose this war lol. People against SA are going all out on this while people in SA are not.

[Bedwyr]

The main point about this War is that literally any realm that isn’t Astroist is auto-excluded on Dwilight, atleast in the North.

In the North, sure.  SA has no real hold on anything south, however.

My main point is that SA is too much of an oppressive force unless you want to be part of it, because choice-wise it has so much power and strangle-hold on the continent and there’s not much in the way to avoid it without bowing to it, which is boring. That’s basically how The League Of Free-Nations sees it, but more for the IC actions of SA as reason for the War.

It's one heck of a change from the normal position of religions elsewhere that are generally limited to one or two realms and have not much in the way of influence outside them.  And I can assure you that again, what you're saying only holds in the north.  Most of the continent is still SA free.

As it stands, Averoth can’t do anything else but fight Astrum and SA, one; for the massively crippling ‘Too Much Peace’ rule, (Something I intend to offer an amendment to as a Game Dev suggestion at some point)

The dev team isn't happy with how TMP works right now, and it's going to be changed.  I'm not sure how set Tom is on the last idea discussed, but people suggesting how to make the game better are generally welcomed with open arms.

Dwilight basically equals = Pick a Big Realm, Pick SA, OR, Pick a small realm, pick the losing side. It’s conformity or conflict, because SA is everywhere.

Caerwyn's pretty big.  Pian en Luries isn't bad, and was a lot bigger before the last major civil war.

[Maxim]

Well SA has influence i.e. atleast a few members, in:

Astrum, Morek, Corsanctum, Libero, Summerdale, D'Hara, Terran, Pian En Luries.

That leaves:

Caerwyn, Barca, Madina, Fissoa.

-----

I mean thats pretty much the continent, unless 'the South' stands as "the very south south - the bottom 1/5 of the continent".

-----

I'm glad to hear the Too Much Peace thing is being adjusted. My suggestion to the Feature Requests might be a bit late coming then.

-----

Now they're decent, but Caerwyn is still only Two-duchies. Morek is Three, Astrum is 6, etc etc. The power difference makes all the difference.

[Geronus]

My main point is that SA is too much of an oppressive force unless you want to be part of it, because choice-wise it has so much power and strangle-hold on the continent and there’s not much in the way to avoid it without bowing to it, which is boring.

In the north SA is quite powerful it is true, but I think 'strangle-hold' is an overstatement. We are basically powerless south of Corsanctum. Yes we do have a *few* members in Terran,  D'Hara, and Asylon, but all those realms are multi-religious and are not by any means under the control of the Church. They freely set their own courses and are actually fairly wary of the Church. Even in the north Averoth existed in peace for a long time without anyone in SA giving it a second thought. Libero Empire and Summerdale also manage their own affairs just fine. Certainly each of them has some members of SA in the realm, but they're not nearly as devoted to the Church as the theocracies are. Averoth provoked SA. If you hadn't (and your reasoning for doing so makes perfect sense), you'd still be at peace.

[Vellos]

Astrum, Morek, Corsanctum, Libero, Summerdale, D'Hara, Terran, Pian En Luries.

That leaves:

Caerwyn, Barca, Madina, Fissoa.

I would bet that Madina and Caerwyn have Astroists among them.

I find your objectives admirable and wish you good luck in your fight. Meanwhile, I have more interesting affairs to manage in Maroccidens, the Land of the Just Republics, the domains of the Véinsørmoot.

[Indirik]

The main point about this War is that literally any realm that isn’t Astroist is auto-excluded on Dwilight, atleast in the North. You have a choice to join the religion, as we did when we kicked the Torenism out of Averoth, or create an alternative that will most likely fly in the face of Astroism, or be used as a means of targeting your realm. Caerwyn has managed through this because its so big, other realms have ‘secular beliefs’, which I just think is messy and too wishy-washy. Instead of any religion, Averoth has put the most focus on intra-realm-RP and ‘culture’ development, the ideology of ‘The Freestate’, of a benevolent tyranny, of social-consent, and a realm lore that basically says “Whoever wins the Rebellion for the Rulership – deserves to be the Ruler”, all backed by Sextus’ twisted and obscure character traits. It’s a very complex mix, something I will at some point try to clarify on the wiki. (I’ve tried countless times, the enormity of it just ends up drowning me, and I haven’t had much time recently.This isn’t really the place for all that.)

My main point is that SA is too much of an oppressive force unless you want to be part of it, because choice-wise it has so much power and strangle-hold on the continent and there’s not much in the way to avoid it without bowing to it, which is boring. That’s basically how The League Of Free-Nations sees it, but more for the IC actions of SA as reason for the War.

To paraphrase Tom back when everyone was complaining about CE being too powerful on Atamara and locking up the island: "If you don't like it, then do something about it." Personally, I'm glad someone finally got the balls to do it. (Both on Atamara *and* Dwilight!)

You see, BattleMaster is not a "fair" game. You have to play fair within the rules and spirit of the game, but that doesn't mean that no matter what, you'll have a chance at "winning" or beating the realm next door in a fight. That's not the way life works. Nor is it the way the game works. BattleMaster is about playing within the framework the game gives you. Sometimes it means you're the bully on the block, sometimes it means you're the kid getting his faced kicked in the dirt. And if you're really lucky, you can stand up, dust yourself off, and kick the bully in the nuts. Just be damned sure you're ready to finish him off before he gets up.

BattleMaster is a persistent state, MMORPG. It isn't Counterstrike, or Quake where equality lies just beyond the next respawn. Nor is it WoW or EverQuest (LevelQuest?) where the game is tailored to provide every player a challenging experience from the first login to the last dollar they Hoover out of your wallet. In BattleMaster, you don't get to have a "fair fight" just because you're a human player. You get to play a fun game with fun people. But that doesn't mean that everyone gets the same deal.

As it stands, Averoth can’t do anything else but fight Astrum and SA, one; for the massively crippling ‘Too Much Peace’ rule, (Something I intend to offer an amendment to as a Game Dev suggestion at some point), two; for massive boredom and three; because quite frankly, to quote a bit of Fight Club, “self-destruction is the answer.” There is no-where to expand, nothing else to do.

Boring? Nothing to do? I thought you said you focused on " ...intra-realm-RP and ‘culture’ development...". That doesn't sound like nothing to me.

At this stage Averoth might as well stop existing because we’ve finished fighting the monsters and building the realm up from a single region of 400 starving peasants. It is essentially ‘game-over’ stagnation, in terms of what the realm can actually do. The RP and ‘realm culture’ is there, the IC options are not. I’ve made a point of running a tournament, as a bit of tradition, every 100 days since Sextus took over even when its been financially crippling, and we’ve had our internal realm fun too. But even that for all its IC worth is superficial.

Wut? Sounds to me like you guys were having a grand old time. If you really have created a unique society in Averoth, the I truly congratulate you. You've managed to do something that very few people actually do. But that doesn't mean that, IC, my character is going to go easy on you.

(Oh, and BTW - Nice hit with the lance today. You skewered me pretty damn good. At least I think it was you. All those armored war horses look the same when you're standing in front of the charge. )

And, did you ever think to perhaps work *with* the realms around you? You ignored Astrum for a long time. Then all the sudden took a very hostile posture. Just because there are other realms around doesn't mean you need to attack them.  Back in the day, the Theocracy of Morek actually had two dominant religions that mostly coexisted: Sanguis Astroism and The Seven. Just because you're not SA doesn't mean you have to place yourself in outright opposition to SA.

Dwilight basically equals = Pick a Big Realm, Pick SA, OR, Pick a small realm, pick the losing side. It’s conformity or conflict, because SA is everywhere.

So yes, me and my friends and realm mates have thrown it all in as a chance to make one of those great BM moments, for the enormity of the conflict, and hopefully for the fantastic RP it will bring. SA might be convenient or interesting for those within it, but it’s a game-killer for many of those outside of it. Its like one realm controlling half the continent. We’ll either change it, or we’ll lose Dwilight. The odds are massively against us and we know it, but that’s half the fun.

Honestly, I am glad you decided to stand up and "fight the good fight". (Even if my character thinks it's the wrong fight.) It's something that very few people in BattleMaster are willing to do.

Rowan, I’ll PM you the quick RP I did, since you won’t have got it I don’t think(?)

When you die, you are supposed to be able to continue receiving messages until you delete your character. A bug in the new wounding system prevented him from being able to do that, though.

[Indirik]

I would bet that Madina and Caerwyn have Astroists among them.

There is at least one Madinan in SA. My character thinks he's a spy, and has in the past petitioned to have him thrown out. Either that, or demand that he build a temple, since he's a lord.

[Anaris]

Well SA has influence i.e. atleast a few members, in:

Astrum, Morek, Corsanctum, Libero, Summerdale, D'Hara, Terran, Pian En Luries.

I beg your pardon, but SA has no influence in Pian en Luries.  I don't even know for sure that they have any noble members here, and at most they have, say, a few hundred peasant followers.

[Vellos]

Sometimes it means you're the bully on the block, sometimes it means you're the kid getting his faced kicked in the dirt. And if you're really lucky, you can stand up, dust yourself off, and kick the bully in the nuts. Just be damned sure you're ready to finish him off before he gets up.

Or, body slam him, acquire YouTube fame, and be a hero for all of time.

[Shenron]

Or, body slam him, acquire YouTube fame, and be a hero for all of time.

Hahahaha, that was all over the news in Australia 

As for SA influence in the south, Timothy said it before me. What SA influence in the south? There isn't any.

[Perth]

Indeed, two of our three Dukes are SA in Terran, however the SA Church has little influence in actual Terran policy. Most in Terran are fairly wary of SA.

SA's influence is really delegated to the north and that's bout it.

[Vellos]

Oddly enough, though two of our three dukes are SA... I think we may only have 3 or 4 Astroists in the whole realm, if that.

[Perth]

Oddly enough, though two of our three dukes are SA... I think we may only have 3 or 4 Astroists in the whole realm, if that.

Indeed. I only know of those two, actually.

[Geronus]

Which is my point. I think our reach is drastically overstated. Caerwyn, Terran and Asylon have all closed down temples. A Madinan infiltrator once stabbed Allison at a time when she was highly influential in the Church. Sure, there was at least a little outrage over most of these events, but what could we do about it? In the end we did nothing, as there has nothing we could do. SA is far from all powerful. In many ways we're simply a powerful alliance bloc just like the CE bloc on Atamara. We're hard to challenge in our backyard, but a non-factor outside of it. Though it seems the fight has now been brought to our backyard.

[Hossenfeffer]

... two of our three Dukes are SA in Terran, however the SA Church has little influence in actual Terran policy.

There's a reason for that; SA isn't actually trying to take over the world! 

Terran's SA dukes have been given no orders that I know of, secret or overt, to try and influence its policy in SA's favour.  I imagine they're probably pro-SA since they're SA, but that's as far as it goes.  SA is perfectly happy to share; as someone pointed out, even Morek had two religions for a while.  The Order of the Seven didn't die out because we crushed it, it died out because it had nowhere to expand and the leaders consequently lost interest (or so the founder told me before her character converted to SA).

Still, it's all about perception, and people think SA is a vicious brute.  I think this is going to do SA a lot of good.  We've had so much infighting and politicking because we had few external enemies.  This war may just heal many of those internal rifts, making SA stronger than ever before.  Which would be nice.