Author Topic: Realm Giving Away Regions  (Read 7188 times)

Penchant

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 3121
    • View Profile
Realm Giving Away Regions
« Topic Start: March 13, 2012, 02:03:25 AM »
Not to long ago the Zuma gave two regions away to Asylon. I am wondering if that can be done with other realms as in lets say for example Barca give Terran a region. Is that possible and is that possible on stable islands?
“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
― G.K. Chesterton

Anaris

  • Administrator
  • Exalted Emperor
  • *
  • Posts: 8525
    • View Profile
Re: Realm Giving Away Regions
« Reply #1: March 13, 2012, 02:06:01 AM »
That's been possible for...probably around 10 years. ;D
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Penchant

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 3121
    • View Profile
Re: Realm Giving Away Regions
« Reply #2: March 13, 2012, 02:17:44 AM »
Ah, well I have been playing for a little more than 6 monthes and this was the only time I have ever seen it so thought I would ask. Thanks for the info.
“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
― G.K. Chesterton

De-Legro

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 3838
    • View Profile
Re: Realm Giving Away Regions
« Reply #3: March 13, 2012, 02:20:38 AM »
It is a ruler action if you need to know.
Previously of the De-Legro Family
Now of representation unknown.

Penchant

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 3121
    • View Profile
Re: Realm Giving Away Regions
« Reply #4: March 13, 2012, 02:37:17 AM »
Thanks it will be helpful in knowing who to make sure stays good with the deal (I am an ambassador of my realm). Currently allies of my realm are TOing regions though we are supposed to receive them so I was wondering how that would be done. (As in would they have to let the regions go rogue and we take those or what. Letting the regions go rogue would be a possibly option but not a favorable one since we are about to destroy a realm so if it went rogue the enemy wouldn't take them back btw.)
“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
― G.K. Chesterton

De-Legro

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 3838
    • View Profile
Re: Realm Giving Away Regions
« Reply #5: March 13, 2012, 02:48:05 AM »
Thanks it will be helpful in knowing who to make sure stays good with the deal (I am an ambassador of my realm). Currently allies of my realm are TOing regions though we are supposed to receive them so I was wondering how that would be done. (As in would they have to let the regions go rogue and we take those or what. Letting the regions go rogue would be a possibly option but not a favorable one since we are about to destroy a realm so if it went rogue the enemy wouldn't take them back btw.)

There are two common ways. The first is the ruler action. The more common one (at least in my experience)  is to have the Lord change their allegiance, step down and then leave the receiving realm. I really really dislike the second one from a RP perspective though
Previously of the De-Legro Family
Now of representation unknown.

Penchant

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 3121
    • View Profile
Re: Realm Giving Away Regions
« Reply #6: March 13, 2012, 03:31:26 AM »
Hmmm, I hadnt thought of your second way. Though I find it best and most likely to be done through the ruler way.
“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
― G.K. Chesterton

Dante Silverfire

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 1786
  • Merlin (AT), Brom(DWI), Proslyn(DWI)
    • View Profile
Re: Realm Giving Away Regions
« Reply #7: March 13, 2012, 09:39:09 AM »
Hmmm, I hadnt thought of your second way. Though I find it best and most likely to be done through the ruler way.

Yes, the only downside with this method, is if you don't trust the other realm, and you think they'll just kidnap/execute your ruler. (Yes, this is a legitimate in game experience)

But I agree though too. The 2nd method is a terrible way to do things, but I've also seen it as one of the more common ones used.
"This is the face of the man who has worked long and hard for the good of the people without caring much for any of them."

fodder

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 1977
    • View Profile
Re: Realm Giving Away Regions
« Reply #8: March 13, 2012, 09:56:54 AM »
or get sir whatsit join the other realm, get appointed and flip back... same thing without h/p loss (not entirely certain h/p loss is still there for certain positions...)

or religion thingy..
firefox

De-Legro

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 3838
    • View Profile
Re: Realm Giving Away Regions
« Reply #9: March 13, 2012, 10:50:50 AM »
or get sir whatsit join the other realm, get appointed and flip back... same thing without h/p loss (not entirely certain h/p loss is still there for certain positions...)

or religion thingy..

Which honestly is almost as bad as a noble flipping the region as the Lord then heading back to his old region. Allegiance shouldn't be treated as like that. Its a kin to changing your citizenship, buying some land then wanting to change back to your old nation.
Previously of the De-Legro Family
Now of representation unknown.

fodder

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 1977
    • View Profile
Re: Realm Giving Away Regions
« Reply #10: March 13, 2012, 01:23:00 PM »
never said anything contrary... though the religion bit doesn't involve flipping..  but sounds rather hostile (booting someone out)
firefox

Indirik

  • Exalted Emperor
  • ******
  • Posts: 10849
  • No pressure, no diamonds.
    • View Profile
Re: Realm Giving Away Regions
« Reply #11: March 13, 2012, 02:04:59 PM »
Which honestly is almost as bad as a noble flipping the region as the Lord then heading back to his old region. Allegiance shouldn't be treated as like that. Its a kin to changing your citizenship, buying some land then wanting to change back to your old nation.
While some people consider this as bad, it is the easiest and least damaging way to do it. It was also advocated as the best way to do it for quite some time. I'm fairly certain that Tom mentioned it as a good way to do things, back on the DList.

Given the way region exchanges work, this will continue to be the most popular, and most often suggested way to do it.

Given that oaths are all RP, and can be switched at any time without any penalties, I don't see any particular reason why an oath of fealty can't have conditions or terms, or whatever you want to call it. Do oaths of fealty have to be "Forever and ever, amen"? Can't it just be "I will serve you and your duchy to the best of my abilities for the next three weeks"?

You can't give the players two ways to do something, one quick/easy/painless and the other longer/more complex/painful, then tell them they're doing it wrong when they choose the quick/easy/painless way. At some point we need to stop blaming the players and realize that just maybe the system we're giving them actively promotes the kind of behavior we say we don't want to see. And it's our fault, not theirs.
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving.

Indirik

  • Exalted Emperor
  • ******
  • Posts: 10849
  • No pressure, no diamonds.
    • View Profile
Re: Realm Giving Away Regions
« Reply #12: March 13, 2012, 02:12:25 PM »
Yes, the only downside with this method, is if you don't trust the other realm, and you think they'll just kidnap/execute your ruler. (Yes, this is a legitimate in game experience)
It is important to mention, especially when talking to newer players, that the "kidnap/execute" scenario is not something that is implemented in game mechanics. The other party can't just click a button that says "arrest the other guy". Arresting nobles is something that requires certain specific conditions, such as a war declaration, and even then there is no "arrest a noble" button. (Priests being a special case, and even then requires a war declaration.) And execution requires a certain set of pre-existing conditions. Meeting a foreign ruler to exchange regions, then arresting and executing them, is something that I have never seen happen, nor heard of it happening, in the past 6+ years. Any realm that actually pulled such a stunt would almost certainly find itself in a very bad spot with even their allies.

Quote
But I agree though too. The 2nd method is a terrible way to do things, but I've also seen it as one of the more common ones used.
It's the easy/fast/painless way of doing things. Blaming the players for doing it hardly seems useful.
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving.

Dante Silverfire

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 1786
  • Merlin (AT), Brom(DWI), Proslyn(DWI)
    • View Profile
Re: Realm Giving Away Regions
« Reply #13: March 13, 2012, 06:11:13 PM »
It's the easy/fast/painless way of doing things. Blaming the players for doing it hardly seems useful.

Yep, I understand completely. I know I've advocated the method myself in the past.

It is important to mention, especially when talking to newer players, that the "kidnap/execute" scenario is not something that is implemented in game mechanics. The other party can't just click a button that says "arrest the other guy". Arresting nobles is something that requires certain specific conditions, such as a war declaration, and even then there is no "arrest a noble" button. (Priests being a special case, and even then requires a war declaration.) And execution requires a certain set of pre-existing conditions.

I believe the situation was such that the Ruler was already banned from the realm they were exchanging regions with. I'm not sure what changes that would make to the situation, but that was where that came from.

Yes it is not a standard case.
"This is the face of the man who has worked long and hard for the good of the people without caring much for any of them."

Indirik

  • Exalted Emperor
  • ******
  • Posts: 10849
  • No pressure, no diamonds.
    • View Profile
Re: Realm Giving Away Regions
« Reply #14: March 13, 2012, 06:45:00 PM »
If the ruler was already banned in the other realm, then yes, he could be executed if caught. But you would have to catch him first. There are a limited number of ways to capture a noble. The one that probably got the guy in your case was traveling in an enemy region (diplomatic status of War) without a unit. If he was traveling without a unit into a realm with which he was at war, then he deserved to be executed.
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving.