Surrender duels as a training method

[Foundation]

There should be Training Matches and Duels to the Death.  +1 for removing Dueling till surrender.

[egamma]

There should be Training Matches and Duels to the Death.  +1 for removing Dueling till surrender.

Sounds good to me...

[Norrel]

There should be Training Matches and Duels to the Death.  +1 for removing Dueling till surrender.

+1, requested something to this effect a while ago myself.

[Lorgan]

I don't think duels till surrender should be removed to be honest. Who really is abusing them? I've never had someone come at me asking if I wanted to duel till surrender just for laughs or skillz... Clearly pcw is only considering this quite drastic option (because there's a very real chance you'll get wounded) because he's in a newly colonized realm with no academies.

Don't go removing cool features because someone somewhere under specific circumstances may /think/ of abusing them. It seriously is one of the reasons that the game has become less fun and easy-going over the years. If you have a cool feature, for crying out loud, /keep/ it.

[Norrel]

I don't think duels till surrender should be removed to be honest. Who really is abusing them? I've never had someone come at me asking if I wanted to duel till surrender just for laughs or skillz... Clearly pcw is only considering this quite drastic option (because there's a very real chance you'll get wounded) because he's in a newly colonized realm with no academies.

Don't go removing cool features because someone somewhere under specific circumstances may /think/ of abusing them. It seriously is one of the reasons that the game has become less fun and easy-going over the years. If you have a cool feature, for crying out loud, /keep/ it.

I've seen it quite a bit in the older continents.

[egamma]

Don't go removing cool features because someone somewhere under specific circumstances may /think/ of abusing them. It seriously is one of the reasons that the game has become less fun and easy-going over the years. If you have a cool feature, for crying out loud, /keep/ it.

If you really need the duel feature, then it should be a duel to the death.

[Tom]

To be honest, death duels also get abused. I can't count the times that Overlord has been challenged to one. Seriously, people? The guy is immortal and has skills maxed out. I could've killed a dozen characters just by accepting their challenges. You are really lucky that he considers you so far below him that he doesn't even consider duelling something he sees as the equivalent of a rat.

[Lorgan]

How is that abuse? If they want to get their chars killed, let them...

I can live with duels till surrender disappearing, but I feel that over the years too many restrictions have been made to avoid abuse while in my experience abuse was really not running rampant. And well... I don't like that parts of the game that are enjoyed by many need to be completely removed because of some bad apples.

In this particular case: I had an idea all worked out where duel till surrender would be used to fight over a hugely prestigious position. It can be done with training matches, but training match doesn't sound quite as grave or fitting as duel till surrender. Especially as if you lost, you'd actually have to surrender your position.

Of course this is just one - rare - use for the feature, and it is not even absolutely necessary, but it really sucks that duel till surrender might be removed because of the hint of abuse and I don't think you should take removing a feature lightly. Sometimes the good outweighs the bad.

[Norrel]

To be honest, death duels also get abused. I can't count the times that Overlord has been challenged to one. Seriously, people? The guy is immortal and has skills maxed out. I could've killed a dozen characters just by accepting their challenges. You are really lucky that he considers you so far below him that he doesn't even consider duelling something he sees as the equivalent of a rat.

How is this abuse? This is just them being stupid, and it makes sense IC. It's not being abused for personal profit and it doesn't ruin the atmosphere of the game.

[GoldPanda]

In this particular case: I had an idea all worked out where duel till surrender would be used to fight over a hugely prestigious position. It can be done with training matches, but training match doesn't sound quite as grave or fitting as duel till surrender. Especially as if you lost, you'd actually have to surrender your position.

That sounds kind of abusive to me. Duels should be over matters of honor. You should only try to kill a peer if he has disrespected you somehow. (And duels to surrender still have a non-zero chance of one party dying.)

[Norrel]

(And duels to surrender still have a non-zero chance of one party dying.)

From what I understand, that is not the case.

[egamma]

That sounds kind of abusive to me. Duels should be over matters of honor. You should only try to kill a peer if he has disrespected you somehow. (And duels to surrender still have a non-zero chance of one party dying.)

How is that abuse? If they want to get their chars killed, let them...

I can live with duels till surrender disappearing, but I feel that over the years too many restrictions have been made to avoid abuse while in my experience abuse was really not running rampant. And well... I don't like that parts of the game that are enjoyed by many need to be completely removed because of some bad apples.

In this particular case: I had an idea all worked out where duel till surrender would be used to fight over a hugely prestigious position. It can be done with training matches, but training match doesn't sound quite as grave or fitting as duel till surrender. Especially as if you lost, you'd actually have to surrender your position.

Of course this is just one - rare - use for the feature, and it is not even absolutely necessary, but it really sucks that duel till surrender might be removed because of the hint of abuse and I don't think you should take removing a feature lightly. Sometimes the good outweighs the bad.

Abuse: using something in a manner that is unintended. The overlord is not indended to be a suicide mechanism. Dueling is not intended to be a training mechanism, or for anything other than slights to honor.

[JPierreD]

Abuse: using something in a manner that is unintended. The overlord is not indended to be a suicide mechanism. Dueling is not intended to be a training mechanism, or for anything other than slights to honor.

Lorgan's idea of putting the position at stake in the duel, for the strongest to prevail and claim the title, is very good, and if there is a small chance the contestants die, even better. That is what I call fun and interesting RP.

If that is not intended, then I feel that some game mechanics are becoming way too restrictive, seriously limiting the creativity of the players and the RP-side of BM.

A feature is abused if it brings unfair advantage (such as swordsfighting skill training), but for people to claim a position? How can that be abuse?

[Lorgan]

Abuse: using something in a manner that is unintended. The overlord is not indended to be a suicide mechanism. Dueling is not intended to be a training mechanism, or for anything other than slights to honor.

That's my point. If you restrict everyone to doing /only/ exactly what the game intends you to do with stuff, without any creative input, BM would be boring like hell.

Or you guys would have to start working on implementing a ton of various new features.

[Velax]

Abuse: using something in a manner that is unintended. The overlord is not indended to be a suicide mechanism. Dueling is not intended to be a training mechanism, or for anything other than slights to honor.

That's not the definition of abuse. Abuse is deliberately exploiting a mechanic in a way that obviously contravenes the intention of the mechanic specifically to gain a benefit or to disadvantage someone else. Like, say, reporting sensitive messages as vulgar in the hopes that an enemy of the realm will be chosen to judge their "vulgarity". Trying to duel Overlord is not abuse. Tom has said that even someone completely outmatched skill-wise still has a chance to win a duel. Who wouldn't try to kill the leader of the invasion if they had the chance? The characters certainly don't know Overlord's immortal, and I'm willing to bet many players don't either.