Author Topic: [Forum Game] World in Revolution 1861, Sign-up Thread  (Read 121599 times)

Vellos

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Actually, China was the only nation this turn who did not try to increase their Industry and/or Infrastructure stats. I think that says something.

Gotta get stability going first. It's hard to build railroads when you're facing down a million-man rebel army.
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Adriddae

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I was actually thinking of really putting gorillas in Washington on my first turn. Ya know, for kicks. :D

Tom

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The Qing should be an isolationist country, shunning foreigners.

That was quite a bit of diplomacy on both our parts, and it was possible only because Switzerland is one of the few countries with no holdings whatsoever in asia. As I understood the chinese player, that set us apart from the other european nations and made her curious. Plus I made a few good offers, and approached as the underdog, not as a "we're europeans, we are superior".

China has always had trade relations with western countries, for centuries before our timeframe, through the silk road mostly. They just never made a big deal out of it.


Most Europeans of the time considered the Chinese nothing more than a bunch of barbarians...
Besides, Switzerland is landlocked, how would this treaty even work?

Agreements with neighbours to use their ports, made in the first turn. Also note that we don't have a trade agreement that would require shipping tons of stuff around, we are mostly exchanging people.

And also, Switzerland and China exchanged diplomats, artisans, writers and philosophers in the first turn, to learn about each others culture. One important step of respect that made the chinese open to an exchange.

I'm not sure if this is entirely historically acurate for the swiss, but I do assume that a democracy would be more open to be simply curious about foreigners. Especially one with much experience in serving abroad as mercenaries, I can't fathom they would be isolationists. Also, as a small, landlocked nation, I have to be creative in what I do to make sure I'm not simply a small piece of land someone rolls over if he wants to.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 08:24:11 AM by Tom »

vonGenf

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The United States would have a near revolt on its hands if, in 1861, randomly invited 200,000 Japanese soldiers to march through the West. The Japanese Government would be in turmoil too, as they were still hyper-sensitive of outsiders at this time.

And you may note that has not happened yet, all the game says is "regulars are being prepared". Let Perth run his game. He's doing a great job up to now.
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Sacha

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+1

Hell, Aleksandr is already acting like a weird cross between Peter the Great and Peter Kropotkin... The point is alternate history, Lenin might end up smothered in his bed, and Bakunin may become the Internal affairs minister   8)

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I know how about China historically had trading relations centuries before this...back to the times of Rome...
That was quite a bit of diplomacy on both our parts, and it was possible only because Switzerland is one of the few countries with no holdings whatsoever in asia. As I understood the chinese player, that set us apart from the other european nations and made her curious. Plus I made a few good offers, and approached as the underdog, not as a "we're europeans, we are superior".

China has always had trade relations with western countries, for centuries before our timeframe, through the silk road mostly. They just never made a big deal out of it.


Agreements with neighbours to use their ports, made in the first turn. Also note that we don't have a trade agreement that would require shipping tons of stuff around, we are mostly exchanging people.

And also, Switzerland and China exchanged diplomats, artisans, writers and philosophers in the first turn, to learn about each others culture. One important step of respect that made the chinese open to an exchange.

I'm not sure if this is entirely historically acurate for the swiss, but I do assume that a democracy would be more open to be simply curious about foreigners. Especially one with much experience in serving abroad as mercenaries, I can't fathom they would be isolationists. Also, as a small, landlocked nation, I have to be creative in what I do to make sure I'm not simply a small piece of land someone rolls over if he wants to.

I know about European and Chinese trade relations, that goes back to the days of Rome...

But you have to keep in mind that not everyone will be willing to receive "savages" on their ports and land so that they can move to Switzerland. Even if the government did, there's no saying the local population would like it.

Vellos

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But you have to keep in mind that not everyone will be willing to receive "savages" on their ports and land so that they can move to Switzerland. Even if the government did, there's no saying the local population would like it.

Europeans did not view the Chinese comparably to indigenous peoples in the Americas, or Africans. You are making broad assumptions without any evidence. Besides, it's not like European nations had extremely effective port control affording easy management of travel. Borders were far more porous then than they are now. And guests of a sovereign nation would not likely be turned away.
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JPierreD

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But you have to keep in mind that not everyone will be willing to receive "savages" on their ports and land so that they can move to Switzerland. Even if the government did, there's no saying the local population would like it.

Switzerland has access to France's ports, from where the Chinese will disembark. The French will likely see them as an exotic attraction, and if any mob rises (for reasons I cannot imagine), well, the police will deal with it.
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Indirik

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I have a question on the turn reports we got:

"[+2 Large Ships under construction for Brazil ready in 4 turns, +1 Industry in 3 turns, (1/5) For New Infrastructure in 4 turns] "

Do I have to keep doing the same orders for the next four turns to get my ships? Or is the one turn's expenditure enough to finish them, and I don't have to keep ordering their build every turn? Are we assumed to have enough infrastructure to build more? What are our limits? Do we have to specify the types of ships we are building? I specified ironclads, but the reports just says "large ship". An ocean going battleship is a hell of a lot different than an ironclad river boat. If we're abstracting everything down to "large ship/small ship", that's fine with me. I just need to know.

Same for the industry. Will it just go up in three turns without further expenditure? Can I continue to build more before that is done?

What does "(1/5) For New Infrastructure in 4 turns" mean? Is that a 1/5 chance that it will go up? Or do I have to keep building for four more turns in order to complete it?

Can we specifically order research to increase our weapons technology, or technology level in general?

How did my "Bank" hit -290? I have no clue what any of this stuff costs... I don't remember what I had before... 50, I think. So I spent 340 bank on something?  Did I really just spend almost two years worth of GDP in the first turn?!
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Muskeato

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Perth might have different plans, but the way we've done it is - You don't have to keep ordering for that +1 industry, that's just saying it will arrive in 3 turns, same for the ships construction etc.

The only limits we have on ships and army sizes is your bank balance. If you're economy can support more and you want more, go for it. I'd say specify large or small for the boats.

I'm not too sure on the 1/5 for the infrastructure myself.

Yes, you can specify for army or naval tech increase - Building more Military bases or developing new tech will achieve this.

You built infrastructure, industry, and 2 large ships last turn, so yeah, that probably cost about 340 gold.

Indirik

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You built infrastructure, industry, and 2 large ships last turn, so yeah, that probably cost about 340 gold.
Well, yeah, I did start a lot. But I didn't know it would be "2yrs of GDP" a lot, nor that it would all be charged to me at the beginning. Is there any guide to costs, or do we just have to guess? I mean, Perth has to have some idea what this stuff costs in order to charge us. And I can't see any reason to keep that stuff secret. I mean, I'm buying it, I should have some basic idea of the estimated costs.
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Vellos

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How did my "Bank" hit -290? I have no clue what any of this stuff costs... I don't remember what I had before... 50, I think. So I spent 340 bank on something?  Did I really just spend almost two years worth of GDP in the first turn?!

The real question is... what interest rate on sovereign debt does Perth apply?
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Muskeato

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Mmm I think so, but to honest I don't know it (I play the USA at Paradox, so money isn't much of an issue -_-)

Perth

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I have a question on the turn reports we got:

"[+2 Large Ships under construction for Brazil ready in 4 turns, +1 Industry in 3 turns, (1/5) For New Infrastructure in 4 turns] "

Do I have to keep doing the same orders for the next four turns to get my ships? Or is the one turn's expenditure enough to finish them, and I don't have to keep ordering their build every turn? Are we assumed to have enough infrastructure to build more? What are our limits? Do we have to specify the types of ships we are building? I specified ironclads, but the reports just says "large ship". An ocean going battleship is a hell of a lot different than an ironclad river boat. If we're abstracting everything down to "large ship/small ship", that's fine with me. I just need to know.

Same for the industry. Will it just go up in three turns without further expenditure? Can I continue to build more before that is done?

No, you do not have to keep spending for the next four turns to continue them. In one year's time (4 turns) you will get to 2 new shiny Large Ships. And, for the most part, ships are abstracted down to "Large Ship/Small Ship" however your Naval Tech level provides a guide to what kind of ship we're talking about.

Quote
1-3: Wooden Sailing Ships
4-6: Wooden Steam Ships
7-10: Early Ironclads
11-16: Ironclads
17 -20: Advanced Ironclads
21-26: Early Cruisers
27-30: Cruisers
31-36: Early Dreadnoughts
37-45: Dreadnoughts
46-50: Early Battleships
51-60: Battleships
60-70: Aircraft Carriers
70-100: Modern Navies
100+: TBD



What does "(1/5) For New Infrastructure in 4 turns" mean? Is that a 1/5 chance that it will go up? Or do I have to keep building for four more turns in order to complete it?

Can we specifically order research to increase our weapons technology, or technology level in general?

How did my "Bank" hit -290? I have no clue what any of this stuff costs... I don't remember what I had before... 50, I think. So I spent 340 bank on something?  Did I really just spend almost two years worth of GDP in the first turn?!

The "(1/5)" means you're working on 1/5th of the the way to a new Infrastructure level. Once you reach (5/5) you'll get advance an Infrastructure level. You're "1/5th" of the level will be complete in a year, technically putting your Infrastructure level at 2.2. So, once you complete another 4/5ths of the level, you'll be at Infrastructure level 3. Some countries put more money into it so you can see they are working on 2/5ths or some 3/5ths.

Yes you can directly fund military/naval tech research. However, you do it creatively. ie. through funding a military academy, through purchasing arms/ships from some one, or even convincing someone with a higher tech level to send military advisers.

You started with 100 Bank and 30 income. So, yeah, you spent a bunch of money. However, you should see it as an investment. As soon your Industry and Infrastructure improvements are completed you will see an immediate increase in your income. Stability also effects income (look at how the stability increases bumped China's income), as well as population. However, troops and ships are expenses.

I have gone back and forth on releasing the hard numbers for how much stuff costs, and I do see why it seems fair to let you know them. However, I also worry about people figuring out how best to game the formulas and increase their income fairly rapidly (which would be fairly easy to do). This would only give the rich nations an even greater advantage than they already had.

That said, if most people think I should make those numbers public, I will strongly consider it. Perhaps giving rough estimates or ranges would work too.

One last note: yeah, any spending you do for a while now will be deficit spending. That's fine. If you rack up to much negative in your bank, however, it will effect the nation in a negative way.
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Jacob L

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I say keep em secret.  At MOST provide a very vague rangy type number but really rather it be secret and people just sometimes not pay enough or overpay a little or have them be more direct in what they want.  The partial infra is good and once we are a ways in most nations wont be adding 1-2 industry when they add industry anymore.

Players also need to realize that many nations will simply never be great and that is fine.  Brazil will not be the #1 nation, Russia will never be the #1 naval power and odds are the Ottomans will never have the #1 army but come up with goals fitting your nation and chase them.  If you do a good enough job maybe the nation can climb the ladder a bit and perhaps become much greater than historically it did.  There is no reason that good play cannot lead to an existing CSA, the fully realized Japanese empire, a strong Russia WITH a navy and stability to boot or in my case a Spain that adds to, not loses more of its empire by 1900.  ((yeah yeah 1900 waaay away but momentum wise.))
Spain in WiR 1861