Author Topic: Having an estate as Ruler  (Read 17971 times)

Chenier

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Re: Having an estate as Ruler
« Reply #30: April 15, 2012, 05:53:03 PM »
The new system does create a problem for Lords wanting to run for Ruler, but that has some benefits. Only the most prestigious, aka the Dukes, can win without having to sacrifice their regions. The rest sacrifice whatever they  have, be it their region or just their estate.

Right, because the game isn't elitist enough as it is and we should put further restrictions upon lower-downs that aspire to rulership?

You can:

 - Get the duke to give you the duchy title and the ruler title, he would keep being Margrave of a city.
 - Get the current ruler to create a new duchy for you.
 - Live with being ruler and not lord.

1) Right, "please step down from ducalship and rulership just because I don't want to wait to resume being a duke again".
2) Not possible with only 1 city and no townslands. Besides, it's intentional that there's only 1 duchy, breaking apart such a small realm into multiple duchies makes no sense.
3) Meaning no vote, which is part of why the situation is at it is.

No, the best solution is that I wait for the rulership elections, then lose my lordship because of the election, and then ask him to step down as duke so that I can take the position. But will that truly be possible? Will I be able to name myself duke if I don't belong to any region of the duchy, though? If not, then that's really broken.
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JPierreD

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Re: Having an estate as Ruler
« Reply #31: April 15, 2012, 07:02:00 PM »
Right, because the game isn't elitist enough as it is and we should put further restrictions upon lower-downs that aspire to rulership?

You are not precisely a lower-down...

Will I be able to name myself duke if I don't belong to any region of the duchy, though? If not, then that's really broken.

You will.
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fodder

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Re: Having an estate as Ruler
« Reply #32: April 15, 2012, 07:15:28 PM »
don't know why you are complaining about the nature of the new system, as opposed to bugs in the new system

the duke+lord of grehk lost city of grehk, remained as duke of grehk in the last week or whatever it is.

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it's not broken.. it's just the way you set up your realm isn't compatible with how it works atm. if i am reading it right, you basically want the ruler and duke to be a double position in your realm and voted on monthly or whatever it is.. that's just not possible atm. (alternatively, duke and lord as double position.. same thing... ie essentially a 2 tier-ed system as opposed to 3 - not even counting the knights.)

unless you are saying... you want to be duke.. forever, someone else can get to be ruler or lord, but no one else can be both or duke. well, you ain't the duke.... so if there's to be only 1 duke position and you ain't it, then you'll have to boot someone else out of it with whatever means.

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should lords who win rulership elections be auto-promoted into having their own duchy?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 07:23:49 PM by fodder »
firefox

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Re: Having an estate as Ruler
« Reply #33: April 15, 2012, 09:03:22 PM »
should lords who win rulership elections be auto-promoted into having their own duchy?

That's actually a nifty solution.

Anaris

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Re: Having an estate as Ruler
« Reply #34: April 15, 2012, 09:06:57 PM »
That's actually a nifty solution.

I'm not sure it's the best one, though. It will tend to cause Republics (and any realms with regularly-elected rulers) to end up with a scattering of random, probably-unwanted Duchies.
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fodder

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Re: Having an estate as Ruler
« Reply #35: April 15, 2012, 10:06:45 PM »
... a tickbox option for those realms that want it? (under gov settings..)

for that matter... allow duchies to be formed directly for all regions once people get used to it.

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another tickbox to allow boot duke+lord out of his lordship if he wins ruler... to "even" things out.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 10:15:15 PM by fodder »
firefox

Chenier

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Re: Having an estate as Ruler
« Reply #36: April 15, 2012, 11:37:40 PM »
I'm not sure it's the best one, though. It will tend to cause Republics (and any realms with regularly-elected rulers) to end up with a scattering of random, probably-unwanted Duchies.

Oh god the infinite number of duchies made off of rural regions  :o

An imperial region, sure. But please, for god's sake, not a new duchy.

don't know why you are complaining about the nature of the new system, as opposed to bugs in the new system

(...)

unless you are saying... you want to be duke.. forever, someone else can get to be ruler or lord, but no one else can be both or duke. well, you ain't the duke.... so if there's to be only 1 duke position and you ain't it, then you'll have to boot someone else out of it with whatever means.

Well, yea, the level of bugginess that came with the new estate system is a little frustrating. I'd have expected it to be a little bit more polished before pushed live. Some of the bugginess is just the non-application of new features that I don't really like to begin with, though, so...

And yes, basically I do want to be duke forever. Ruler too, but hey, I chose to put monthly elections, I can suck up an occasional vote fluke now and then. Duke was never a position you had to constantly run for, why should it change with every election now? I chose a theocracy when I seceded namely so that I could appoint myself as duke should something ever cause me to temporarily lose rulership. And it doesn't seem like making dukeships become a monthly election issue was part of the plan with this change, but rather a by-product of the wish to have an unbroken chain of command. To which I reply: bring imperial regions back.

After all, the reason Fheuv'n even exists is because Guillaume, as a duke, managed to sway a bunch of Enweilian lords to swear fealty to his tiny remote outskirt city and then sway them into participating in the creation of a new independent realm in a quest for glory. It was always about the lords' allegiance to Guillaume, which is why he rewarded his lords with political power (unlike the knights, who did not bring in regions for the new realm). A new ruler may speak for the realm to foreigners, but that's no reason to cut the feudal ties binding all of the lords to Guillaume. Mind you, this new chain of command thing didn't !@#$ things up and create a new duchy and appointed a new duke, that was another issue. But this chain of command thing makes it a lot more complicated to fix things and return them to the way they used to be before the bug butt!@#$ed our feudal hierarchy by magically creating a new duchy and arbitrarily choosing a new duke.

You are not precisely a lower-down...

I ain't, but that doesn't mean this change will only affect me. I'm rather confident in my ability to retake, next month, what I had last month. Assuming Midnight of the South doesn't just TO Fheuvenem and put an end to our misery right now.

But I just picture myself in the days, striving for rulership against longstanding incumbents or mutes. With this change, dukes will become a much more "natural" choice for rulership, regardless of how active and deserving they are. I would have had a much harder time climbing up the ladder.

You will.

Really? You don't need to be part of the duchy to appoint yourself as its duke? Well that's reassuring. Thank god. This means that assuming we survive 'till then, next month I should be able to return things to the status quo.

However, it will mean temporarily losing Sandlakes, and having to re-appoint myself as lord of it. A lot of hassle for no good reason.
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fodder

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Re: Having an estate as Ruler
« Reply #37: April 15, 2012, 11:58:39 PM »
eh... when you are ruler. you are not part of any duchy (unless you were duke before... in which case, you are ruler+duke)

as ruler, if there's a vacant duchy position, then i don't see why you can't appoint yourself. if there isn't a vacant one, then you have to create a new duchy out of a town/city... though obviously it still means you won't be the duke, because you ain't the lord. that said lord/duke will have to drop off being duke to create the vacancy...
firefox

Chenier

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Re: Having an estate as Ruler
« Reply #38: April 16, 2012, 12:07:45 AM »
eh... when you are ruler. you are not part of any duchy (unless you were duke before... in which case, you are ruler+duke)

as ruler, if there's a vacant duchy position, then i don't see why you can't appoint yourself. if there isn't a vacant one, then you have to create a new duchy out of a town/city... though obviously it still means you won't be the duke, because you ain't the lord. that said lord/duke will have to drop off being duke to create the vacancy...

Said ruler/duke/lord was made duke only because of a random bug. I'm pretty confident that once I'm back in power, I'll be able to convince him to step down as a duke of the duchy he illegitimately got (while keeping lordship of the city). Especially since it seems that my radical stances are more wide-spread in the realm than I thought they were initially.
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fodder

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Re: Having an estate as Ruler
« Reply #39: April 16, 2012, 12:43:12 AM »
doesn't really matter how he got there. he's the duke. and he didn't cheat or anything. how you resolve it is up to you.
firefox

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Re: Having an estate as Ruler
« Reply #40: April 16, 2012, 09:24:07 AM »
I'm not sure it's the best one, though. It will tend to cause Republics (and any realms with regularly-elected rulers) to end up with a scattering of random, probably-unwanted Duchies.

Yeah, it would definitely have to be the same duchy each time, with the duke auto-changing to be the current ruler.

Geronus

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Re: Having an estate as Ruler
« Reply #41: April 16, 2012, 03:07:02 PM »
So, this whole army thing is kind of a bummer. I know that maybe it seems odd to have a Ruler as just a rank and file member of an army, but as armies are the primary mechanism for coordinating large groups of nobles in a war (and by far the most heavily used), I think it's rather important that a ruler have the ability to join one. Besides, what if he wants to be a Marshal too? Plenty of Rulers who were great war leaders in history.

I don't know about my fellow Rulers, but I very much want to be in my realm's army so that I get orders and can participate in the war. Can we have a 'join army' button? Pretty please?

Telrunya

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Re: Having an estate as Ruler
« Reply #42: April 16, 2012, 03:17:44 PM »
Quote
Yes, it's a bug, and as such, will get fixed when we can get to it.

It's being worked on :)

Ironsun

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Re: Having an estate as Ruler
« Reply #43: April 17, 2012, 06:22:47 AM »
Yeah, it would definitely have to be the same duchy each time, with the duke auto-changing to be the current ruler.

Sounds like a good solution.

Masochist

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Re: Having an estate as Ruler
« Reply #44: April 17, 2012, 10:04:55 AM »
Yeah, it would definitely have to be the same duchy each time, with the duke auto-changing to be the current ruler.

Maybe have the Duchy of the capital city be connected to the ruler. In the case capital being moved have the Duke/Duchess of that region lose their title and the old ruler duchy become Dukeless (to avoid automatically giving a duke a region that's about to fall or something if you moved it in panic).

If the king is killed or otherwise removed then have the duchy revert to a lordless one until a new ruler is appointed.
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