Militia increase in Mt. Black Nastrond

[Vellos]

Maybe the magistratum should avoid resolutions that are not intended to be immediately implemented?  Or state time restrictions for verdicts that fall under that category?  The verdict certainly left me with the impression that it should have be done immediately;  not after replacement militia has been placed, when the lord manages to cash bonds, or when long enough has gone by that we would have been better off attacking our own militia in the first place.  I guess it falls to a disparity between the expectation from the verdict of the Summerdale players, the Magistratum and the Libero Empire players... too much grey area.

It should be done immediately. In this case, immediately means possibly quite a few days: activity must be considered (Magistrates are bound by the IRs as well), and disbanding militia takes hours. It physically cannot all be done at once.

[Darksun]

It is regrettable that the incident happened in the first place, but from everything the dev team can tell, Libero Empire is doing all in their power to fulfill the conditions of the verdict as fast as they can.

While this message did not carry the negative connotations of the previous ones (appreciate it, Anaris), I think we need to seriously disambiguate the terms "Libero Empire" or "Libero" with the player of Orris Morton. This is becoming very close to an OOC grief against an entire realm of players that have done absolutely nothing wrong and are just playing with the hand they were dealt. The realm at large has not even received notice that Orris did something wrong (other than an OOC message from Orris himself) much less the details of the verdict.

Again, I'm biased, I play in Libero. However I don't like to be called a cheater, dishonest or someone who is untrustworthy when the situation is out of my control.

[Vellos]

The realm at large has not even received notice that Orris did something wrong (other than an OOC message from Orris himself) much less the details of the verdict.

Again, I'm biased, I play in Libero. However I don't like to be called a cheater, dishonest or someone who is untrustworthy when the situation is out of my control.

What?

Seriously?

Did you not receive the verdict?

I am almost sure I clicked the "public verdict" option. But maybe I had a click-o....

Did you really not see the verdict IG?

[Darksun]

What?

Seriously?

Did you not receive the verdict?

I am almost sure I clicked the "public verdict" option. But maybe I had a click-o....

Did you really not see the verdict IG?

I have no reason to lie about this - I didn't see a verdict and I can only assume that others did not as well. I would have expected a few OOC messages if a weird message that people have never seen before popped up.

[Vellos]

Okay, tried it again.

Did anything happen?

[Darksun]

Don't see anything. Maybe this is a feature? Maybe my character doesn't receive reprimands!

[Vellos]

Seriously?

You don't see anything?

I clicked the "public" box. Your character in Libero Empire does not see ANY warning?

[BardicNerd]

Not seeing anything either.


Also, if we're really going to talk about fairness, maybe we should be encouraging any future people coming from DF to join Libero instead of Summerdale, hmm?  I'll play the hand I get, but it seems to me that the dramatic increase in players Summerdale has just had is just as unfair as the advantage Libero has gotten from this bug.

[Darksun]

Honestly, I'm not seeing anything.

At times like this, I consult my Dev team. I'm sure the message is stored somewhere.

Would you like me to file the bug report?

[Vellos]

I'll look into what's going on with the warning.

[Velax]

I'll play the hand I get, but it seems to me that the dramatic increase in players Summerdale has just had is just as unfair as the advantage Libero has gotten from this bug.

Seems like things are even, then.

[Anaris]

Apparently there's still some code missing for public verdicts.

I'll see if I can get that fixed.

[Arrakis]

@Bardic_Nerd

The people from DF who are joining Summerdale are there because one player from Summerdale advertised first BM, and then the realm he plays in. He advertised it and that is the sole reason why so many new players in Summerdale. Saying that it is not fair because you didn't think of it first is really poor logic. You should try to advertise Libero Empire somewhere else...who knows, you may get a ton of new players and there is a ton of other forums to promote the game. In the end BM wins as we get a lot of new players. 

On the other hand, we have a player who deliberately exploited a bug in order to gain *substantial* advantage in this war. I really don't agree with the Magistrates about this punishment as it has ton of loopholes and he do as he pleases.  You speak about fairness, but is it really fair that the only punishment he got is just gold? After your foes legitimately outsmarted you abd took the most important region of the entire war? The main advantage, region+militia=big advantage, is still there and it will remain to be there. The punishment doesn't affect that at all, and that is bad. We don't correct bugs but we should correct bug exploits...which are, IMO, two different things.

[Brant]

I don't mind playing the hand I'm given... but right now it feels to me like the dealer said "here's an ace" then waited two days and handed me a three.   At this point I'm all for just playing on... continuing to wait for the militia to be disbanded and discussing it on the forum isn't doing anything but making bad blood between players.

[Geronus]

@Bardic_Nerd

The people from DF who are joining Summerdale are there because one player from Summerdale advertised first BM, and then the realm he plays in. He advertised it and that is the sole reason why so many new players in Summerdale. Saying that it is not fair because you didn't think of it first is really poor logic. You should try to advertise Libero Empire somewhere else...who knows, you may get a ton of new players and there is a ton of other forums to promote the game. In the end BM wins as we get a lot of new players. 

On the other hand, we have a player who deliberately exploited a bug in order to gain *substantial* advantage in this war. I really don't agree with the Magistrates about this punishment as it has ton of loopholes and he do as he pleases.  You speak about fairness, but is it really fair that the only punishment he got is just gold? After your foes legitimately outsmarted you abd took the most important region of the entire war? The main advantage, region+militia=big advantage, is still there and it will remain to be there. The punishment doesn't affect that at all, and that is bad. We don't correct bugs but we should correct bug exploits...which are, IMO, two different things.

This is just like any other bug in the sense that no one is going to go in and instantly remove all that militia, or revert the region to Summerdale's control. Tom's policy is and has been since I started playing that the results of bugs are not corrected. Sometimes that means you get screwed even once the bug is fixed. Sometimes it means you get a nice little bonus. Sometimes one player gets a bonus at another player's expense. Is that really fair? Nope. But them's the rules. I'm fairly sure this applies to bug exploits as well. If you disagree with that stance, I believe the person to take it up with would be Tom.

In assessing this situation, we determined that this was not a calculated exploit. The player of Orris had no idea that this bug would occur in advance of when it did, nor has he since attempted to reproduce it to his own benefit. The ruling was made because we felt the player had other options than to do what he did, but it's not necessarily clear how well he understood that fact, seeing as he does not appear to be quite as much of a BM junky as those of us who regularly read this forum (and have probably acquired a nuanced understanding of the rules as a result). Either way, we do not feel that this was done with Malice Aforethought. A message has been sent via the warning. As a result this shouldn't happen again (not without much more serious repercussions anyway). So long as the player of Orris makes a good faith effort to remove the additional militia when he can, I do not think that we should do anything else. The only other option we have is locking that player's account. I'm not sure that I see how doing so would render the current situation any more just or palatable for the players in Summerdale (and would also result in you having to wait longer before those militia get disbanded, might I add).