Author Topic: Hail Norland!  (Read 34019 times)

wraith

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Re: Hail Norland!
« Reply #60: March 28, 2011, 09:54:21 PM »
Perhaps.

Or maybe Norland simply did not back down to threats, however deadly, if they thought they were right.

That was the soul of Norlanders; better to fight and die than to accept decception out of fear.

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johnny Hammarberg

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Re: Hail Norland!
« Reply #61: March 29, 2011, 11:40:22 AM »
Well, speaking as the General in question at the time I don't recall the way forward with the issue of Mansbridge being made clear by anyone that had more substance than "you can trust MI" which had, over years of war, repeatedly been proven not to be true and in any case was being said by Norland's former allies who had recently betrayed them to side with MI against Norland on the flimsiest of pretexts (in a Norlander's eyes a royal loses his status when he lowers himself to murdering nobles in their sleep and should be treated like any other common criminal).

MI had promised to return Mansbridge to Norland once relations improved but were vague about the terms and refused to clarify them before the treaty was signed. Many in Norland wanted to refuse to sign the treaty until that was rectified because they fully expected MI to renage on this deal but the then King signed anyway. Norland repeatedly tried to raise relations, even offering to feed MI's starving regions but  were met by silence. As MI started to garrison Mansbride and allow their allies' troops to pass through it (against the terms of the peace treaty which forbade any military forces in the region) it looked like they indeed had no intention of honouring the treaty. Given their history of double-dealing and political treachery there was no reason to trust them to.

MI had failed to honour the treaty so Norland took back what had been promised.

MI's new allies then obligingly wiped Norland off the map for them, incidentally gaining much gold and land in the process.

Whatever else was known, believed or talked about outside of Norland this was all that Norlanders saw.

Sure, we could have waited and unspecified amount of time to see if MI might do an about-face and honour their treaty or, when the threat of war in the south faded, use Mansbridge as a staging post for an attack on Norland but standing idle in the face of treachery and threat because it was safer to do so was not Norland's nature. When the question of taking Mansbridge by force was raised the reply came back from all levels of Norland and that reply was "fight!".

I was about to cut your message short but I rather keep it all just to be sure I dont miss out on anything.

Norlanders must have been blind and deaf as the plan was not to have Mansbridge handed over to you but to let the treaty run out and then attack MI in full force making the northern part of MI to fall into Norlands hands once again, MI suspected that and thats why they did fill Mansbridge up with Militia.  The time was specified in the treaty but Norland decided to break in and by doing so the guardians of the treaty had no options then to fulfil their duty. There were no backstabbing at all as the discussion in the rulers channel revealed  all that happened prior to Norlands attack on MI.

Norland had failed to honour the treaty so the guardians of the treaty acted as promised.

I know for a fact that several Norlander knew what happened outside and what was talked about outside of Norland as they were informed by Sordnaz and the former ruler of Caergoth at the time.

None of the allies told Norland to trust Minas Ithil, it was the other way around as we all told Norland to muster for war.

Minas Ithil had no new allies and BoM never became one as it was not in their interest.

There are no defence for Norlands actions at the time except that the common nobles might have been fooled by their ruler and that those who had facts was ignored, at the begining of the war BoM was dancing around in the north doing as little as possible while trying to negotiate with Norland but as that failed the war then turned even uglier and all because Norland broke the treaty.

If its true that the Norland council was unaware about the plans then we all were deceived as we were told many time to wait for the Althing to discuss things before the ruler came back to us when we made the plans to rebuild Norland into the former self.


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De-Legro

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Re: Hail Norland!
« Reply #62: March 29, 2011, 12:43:13 PM »
I was about to cut your message short but I rather keep it all just to be sure I dont miss out on anything.

Norlanders must have been blind and deaf as the plan was not to have Mansbridge handed over to you but to let the treaty run out and then attack MI in full force making the northern part of MI to fall into Norlands hands once again, MI suspected that and thats why they did fill Mansbridge up with Militia.  The time was specified in the treaty but Norland decided to break in and by doing so the guardians of the treaty had no options then to fulfil their duty. There were no backstabbing at all as the discussion in the rulers channel revealed  all that happened prior to Norlands attack on MI.

Norland had failed to honour the treaty so the guardians of the treaty acted as promised.

I know for a fact that several Norlander knew what happened outside and what was talked about outside of Norland as they were informed by Sordnaz and the former ruler of Caergoth at the time.

None of the allies told Norland to trust Minas Ithil, it was the other way around as we all told Norland to muster for war.

Minas Ithil had no new allies and BoM never became one as it was not in their interest.

There are no defence for Norlands actions at the time except that the common nobles might have been fooled by their ruler and that those who had facts was ignored, at the begining of the war BoM was dancing around in the north doing as little as possible while trying to negotiate with Norland but as that failed the war then turned even uglier and all because Norland broke the treaty.

If its true that the Norland council was unaware about the plans then we all were deceived as we were told many time to wait for the Althing to discuss things before the ruler came back to us when we made the plans to rebuild Norland into the former self.

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Naidraug

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Re: Hail Norland!
« Reply #63: March 29, 2011, 06:06:55 PM »
I was about to cut your message short but I rather keep it all just to be sure I dont miss out on anything.

Norlanders must have been blind and deaf as the plan was not to have Mansbridge handed over to you but to let the treaty run out and then attack MI in full force making the northern part of MI to fall into Norlands hands once again, MI suspected that and thats why they did fill Mansbridge up with Militia.  The time was specified in the treaty but Norland decided to break in and by doing so the guardians of the treaty had no options then to fulfil their duty. There were no backstabbing at all as the discussion in the rulers channel revealed  all that happened prior to Norlands attack on MI.

Norland had failed to honour the treaty so the guardians of the treaty acted as promised.

I know for a fact that several Norlander knew what happened outside and what was talked about outside of Norland as they were informed by Sordnaz and the former ruler of Caergoth at the time.

None of the allies told Norland to trust Minas Ithil, it was the other way around as we all told Norland to muster for war.

Minas Ithil had no new allies and BoM never became one as it was not in their interest.

There are no defence for Norlands actions at the time except that the common nobles might have been fooled by their ruler and that those who had facts was ignored, at the begining of the war BoM was dancing around in the north doing as little as possible while trying to negotiate with Norland but as that failed the war then turned even uglier and all because Norland broke the treaty.

If its true that the Norland council was unaware about the plans then we all were deceived as we were told many time to wait for the Althing to discuss things before the ruler came back to us when we made the plans to rebuild Norland into the former self.

I was not part of the Althing on those days, since my char was new and I wasn´t a lord yet, but from what I can remember, we were informed about was that MI had broken the treaty refusing to hand over the region, and not improving relations.  And the guardians of the treaty weren´t going to do ANYTHING to fix that, so either we realized we were never getting Mansbridge and let it be, since MI wouldn´t handle it and the guardians wouldn´t do anything, or we attacked and performed a TO on the region.

That´s why we ended up voting for peace. I believe if there was a plan to wait for the treaty to expire and then attack we would have waited, improved our regions and army.
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johnny Hammarberg

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Re: Hail Norland!
« Reply #64: March 29, 2011, 09:09:56 PM »
Well sadly enough there was a plan :(
In war, truth is the first casualty.  ~Aeschylus

wraith

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Re: Hail Norland!
« Reply #65: March 29, 2011, 11:18:47 PM »
To be honest my memory of events is hazy and lacks detail  (refer to the "were Norlanders drunk IC or OOC" question) but many were not convinced that any plan that may have been mentioned would be enacted. There was certaintly that MI would back-out of their obligations if they possibly could.

In any case the details are largely irrelevant. Norland thought they had been cheated and, for better or worse, it was not in a Norlander's nature to allow that to pass whatever the consequences. Suicidal, perhaps, but individually and collectively Norlanders would die for the code of honour dictated by their nation, their religion and their hearts.. after all, Valhalla awaited those who followed this code.

That may seem crazy to many realms and religions but that is pretty much the point of this thread. Norland was relatively unique for many reasons, one of which being the view that destruction was better than dishonour.
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Regulus Blackmore

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Re: Hail Norland!
« Reply #66: March 30, 2011, 02:02:10 AM »
I was not part of the Althing on those days, since my char was new and I wasn´t a lord yet, but from what I can remember, we were informed about was that MI had broken the treaty refusing to hand over the region, and not improving relations.  And the guardians of the treaty weren´t going to do ANYTHING to fix that, so either we realized we were never getting Mansbridge and let it be, since MI wouldn´t handle it and the guardians wouldn´t do anything, or we attacked and performed a TO on the region.

That´s why we ended up voting for peace. I believe if there was a plan to wait for the treaty to expire and then attack we would have waited, improved our regions and army.

There was a plan, and Xaphan knew it, but he attacked Mansbridge anyway. Thats why Regulus hates Xaphan. Xaphan is, in the eyes of Regulus, responsible for the destruction of Norland.
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loren

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Re: Hail Norland!
« Reply #67: April 05, 2011, 03:55:25 AM »
Pah, Norland was the realm which broke the Protectorate of Hasland.  Clearly the realm that spawned Norland was superior in every way, it even managed to hold out against more realms for longer =)

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Re: Hail Norland!
« Reply #68: April 05, 2011, 04:47:34 AM »
Pah, Norland was the realm which broke the Protectorate of Hasland.  Clearly the realm that spawned Norland was superior in every way, it even managed to hold out against more realms for longer =)

To be fair, combat has changed a *lot* since 2003...

Edit: And travel...

And the IR...

and the players...

and just about everything else, really. Was population even dynamic that far back?
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loren

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Re: Hail Norland!
« Reply #69: April 07, 2011, 03:32:53 AM »
Combat has only seriously changed very recently.  Siege engines were around etc.  They only thing that wasn't really was equipment was the same value for def. and off. and cohesion didn't exist.

I can recall population, but can't recall if it actually declined.. erm it was 8 years ago!  There was an option to call out the militia which gave you 800 man units in the capital when it's threatened (still around? not sure).  It was a hell of a fight though.

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Re: Hail Norland!
« Reply #70: April 07, 2011, 08:01:25 AM »
Combat has only seriously changed very recently.  Siege engines were around etc.  They only thing that wasn't really was equipment was the same value for def. and off. and cohesion didn't exist.

I'm pretty sure equipment damage didn't exist, or was only a fraction of what it is now.
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johnny Hammarberg

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Re: Hail Norland!
« Reply #71: April 08, 2011, 06:45:46 PM »
Combat has only seriously changed very recently.  Siege engines were around etc.  They only thing that wasn't really was equipment was the same value for def. and off. and cohesion didn't exist.

I can recall population, but can't recall if it actually declined.. erm it was 8 years ago!  There was an option to call out the militia which gave you 800 man units in the capital when it's threatened (still around? not sure).  It was a hell of a fight though.

Eh... recently?

There have been changes to combat several times both directly and indirectly during the last 8 years, cavalry with bows is still my dream even if it would be banned in the Barony due to cultural reasons. I remember when they introduced the marshal system and the confusion that followed, a longer chain of command with weary generals who was used to control the battlefield . What confused me was the absence of squirrels in Shiverwood but I guess Tom had killed them to make way for the northern vikings march towards Brackhead.
To be honest I like that the game changes even if I curse most of the time as most changes is a nerf towards my characters not counting when Zortagh become the richest character ever in the BM history (Taxes almost killed him ) ;)
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Stabbity

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Re: Hail Norland!
« Reply #72: July 20, 2011, 09:30:37 PM »
Norland for me was always that realm I loved to hate, and allowed me to advance to General and crush vikings when they tried to invade. That was some pretty bitter fighting in the Eston, BoM, Norland vs MI wars. Great RP and char interaction on MI's side. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and was disappointed in Norland's demise... They went out with more of a whimper than a roar.
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Re: Hail Norland!
« Reply #73: July 21, 2011, 01:42:31 AM »
You can thank us Darkans for that. Turned into free training for our troops.

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Re: Hail Norland!
« Reply #74: December 09, 2011, 10:10:20 AM »
I can confirm population was static back then, I was the one who proposed the change in the old wiki, back when it was still the Gomez family. It was implemented around 2007 or 2008.

Anyway, Hail Norland!