Religion descriptions

[egamma]

I'd like to see some posts explaining various religions in the medival time period. Ideally, it should be fairly condensed, with links to additional information, so that players interested in starting an in-game religion have some good source material.

Druids, for example. Anyone have good information on them?

[Ramiel]

I'd like to see some posts explaining various religions in the medival time period. Ideally, it should be fairly condensed, with links to additional information, so that players interested in starting an in-game religion have some good source material.

Druids, for example. Anyone have good information on them?

From which region and time frame?

[egamma]

Medival Europe, preferably, although people could pull pieces from 3 or 4 religions.

[Meneldur]

I'd like to see some posts explaining various religions in the medival time period. Ideally, it should be fairly condensed, with links to additional information, so that players interested in starting an in-game religion have some good source material.

Druids, for example. Anyone have good information on them?

Give me a few days and I could put something small together regarding the Byzantine Church and perhaps its relationship with the State (they don't call it Byzantine politics for nothing!) however my reading into that area is really only a hobby so there are probably others far more knowledgeable on the subject here in BM who would do a better job.

Also if I remember correctly the Druids were not a religious force in the Middle Ages; indeed its highly questionable whether any existed at such a time at all. After the conversion of the British Isles to Christianity any traces of British polytheism (including the Druids) could only have survived in a much diluted form in local folk-lore, and even that is debatable.

[egamma]

For the purposes of religion creation, it doesn't matter too much what era the religion was from. If we were to model strictly on the medival system, every single realm would have a carbon copy of Roman Catholicism. We don't want that, and in fact, Tom prohibits real-life religions from being copied into the game. So I want to see some interesting historical facts about a wide variety of religions, so that people can give their religions some flavor.

[Haerthorne]

carbon copy of Roman Catholicism.

Well, looking simply at the three major religious branches in Europe (Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim), we already have three diverse umbrellas with numerous subdivisions in their practices and the relationships between church and state. If we consider various heresies amongst the viable variants of these religions, then medieveal Europe provides a lot to choose from.

The Cathars of Southern France were described in retrospect as being protosocialists. The priests adhered strongly the idea of poverty in ways that would make most mendicant monks shiver with discomfort. Their cosmological view was influenced heavily by the Bogomilist view, which was that the reason for evil in the world was not any fault lying with man or God, but an opposing being -- the Devil. They chose the idea that God was not all powerful rather than his intentions being foul when considering the logical fallacy of God being all powerful and pure good whilst trying to explain the presence of evil in the world.

In relation to this we have the Manicheans, an earlier sect who believed in a very complicated cosmology about good and evil, and were some of the most widely learned in their time. St Augustine himself converted from Christianity to Manichaeanism and then back, refuting them finally by saying they were too obsessed in their persuit of knowledge.

Iconoclams in the Byzantine Empire highlight the various forms of religion that were at various points, from a worship of images to their mere veneration, to a power of Bishops to essentially rule a nation to their complete subserviance to the Emperor. This was reflected at the same time in the Holy Roman Empire, where the Bishops became the most loyal servants of the Emperor and fought in all his wars against the Pope.

At the same time we do have evidence of strong paganism in Europe in the 9th century, which only died out as a state religion in the 14th century in Lithuania. The Germans first attempts to colonise the eastern parts of what is today Germany were frustrated by the presence of a coalition of Slavic pagans who repelled them. Later German tales told of new armies and colonists coming to this place to find whole cities abandoned to the forests. Remember as well that Poland, Hungary and Kiev were only "officially" christianised just before 1000AD. This did not mean they all became christian, but just that their Kings became Christian and invited missionairies in from more civilised places so they could participate in the commonwealth of christian culture and technology.

[Haerthorne]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_mythology

A good example of Pagan mythology which lasted for a long time surrounded by Christians. Note the woodcut of the tree in the centre of the town.

[Vellos]

Haerthorne's assessment is about what I would say.

Heretical sects provide diversity, Catholic, Orthodox, and Muslim are the big three. Cathars are the biggest heresy I could see being counted as a "different religion," but the Manichees are a good one from late antiquity.

The only big religion Haerthorne missed was Judaism, which existed all around Medieval Europe, especially Poland in the later period, Spain in the Moorish period.

The "Teutonic Knights" were specifically founded to eradicate Baltic paganism, and Vikings were certainly pagans until they settled in Christian lands. Even the Anglo-Saxon kingdom of Mercia was broadly pagan. And lacking in coconuts.

[Ramiel]

Its the Druids part that got me confused. We didnt have many open Druid Sects since the colonization of Roman Catholicism of Britain. Any sect surviving would have been very secret, if any existed at all.

As to their practices, I wish you the utmost in luck to find out. Since NO Pagan Sect can trace their beliefs back to the Ancient Druids of Britain at all, we really dont know that much about their beliefs, doctrines and rituals. All we can do is compare to those pagan sects we do know of and what was said in here-say amongst any letters and records that have survived.  We can take a very good guess which will probably be right, but no one - unless they are a Druid themselves (IE that follows the true ancient religion not the Neo-Paganism of today) will know if its true or not. Personally I like to think that someone must have survived and that their is a sect somewhere that practices its true rituals faithfully... but I very much also doubt it. Which for me is a great shame.

Same holds true for most of British Paganism from before Roman Catholicism conquered the British Isles.

[De-Legro]

The Druids are mostly an mystery. There are some references to them by the romans during the time of the invasion, but very little other evidence or recordings of them. There are certain groups that believe Druids were completely created by the romans even.

[Ramiel]

The Druids are mostly an mystery. There are some references to them by the romans during the time of the invasion, but very little other evidence or recordings of them. There are certain groups that believe Druids were completely created by the romans even.

There are some historical records detailing one of their 'sanctuary's' which were written... oh by a roman..

Please dont tell me they just made them up The Druids remain one of the forgotten mysteries

[Vellos]

Please dont tell me they just made them up The Druids remain one of the forgotten mysteries

It is almost certain that the indigenous peoples of Britain had some kind of semi-organized religious leadership. Some kind of nature-worship is not entirely implausible.

[De-Legro]

It is almost certain that the indigenous peoples of Britain had some kind of semi-organized religious leadership. Some kind of nature-worship is not entirely implausible.

Yup they existed. Whether they were anything like the Romans described, well that is up for debate. You might want to look at the Christan Sect that existed before the Holy Roman Church was formed. Groups like the Gnostic's are very interesting, even if they were pretty much gone by the medieval period.

[Vellos]

You might want to look at the Christan Sect that existed before the Holy Roman Church was formed.

You mean the Irish Catholics or the British Pelagians?

Whitby Synod might be available in full text, actually.

[De-Legro]

No, the very old sects. Back when being a Christan meant you were still Jewish. All sorts of great variety and practice before the religion as we know it was formed.