Luria

[Solari]

Glaumring is, in fact, the single greatest threat to Dwilight.

[Chenier]

I'm curious—do you know whether D'Hara will fold, once LV has been totally destroyed, and accept peace in order to destroy Aurvandil? Or will you insist upon revenge, despite the facts that it will be completely impossible for you to destroy Luria Nova, and that it will prevent the destruction of Aurvandil, the single greatest threat on Dwilight to...well, to everyone who's not Aurvandil. (Or, possibly, Glaumring. Not sure about that one.)

D'Harans tend to be pragmatic. We are not the types to sacrifice ourselves for people that no longer exist.

I seriously doubt Rynn would make any new demands if LV falls. If he does, he'll be pressured internally to backtrack.

As for what we expect of LV... at the very least, they are meat shields, should they truly be as incompetant as you claim. Any attack on them is an attack that isn't on us. Furthermore, them existing means all of these regions aren't fueling LN's armies. So military performances aside, it is in D'Hara's best interests to try to preserve LV if it can at all be done.

Fact is, despite how nice we tried to play with Aurvandil, we find Mendicant to be an arrogant prick and we really can't stand them. Our hatred of Luria Nova can be put on the backburner for now, Aurvandil being the more serious threat.

[Anaris]

As for what we expect of LV... at the very least, they are meat shields, should they truly be as incompetant as you claim. Any attack on them is an attack that isn't on us. Furthermore, them existing means all of these regions aren't fueling LN's armies. So military performances aside, it is in D'Hara's best interests to try to preserve LV if it can at all be done.

If you're really all that pragmatic, then I'm really having a hard time seeing what the point is of your continuing to hold out.

At this point, there are basically 2 possibilities:

1) D'Hara makes peace, Luria destroys LV, we go kill Aurvandil
2) Luria destroys LV, D'Hara makes peace so we can go kill Aurvandil

So why do you insist upon delaying the inevitable?

[Meneldur]

We all know the details of this by now, and everyone has their IC reasons for perpetuating the war, but let's be clear about WHY Luria suddenly went from war with Aurvandil to war with D'Hara. D'Hara seriously entertained the notion of either coming to the aid of Fissoa in its war with LN or allowing Aurvandil to pass through so THEY could come to the aid of Fissoa, solely in a pragmatic attempt to deal with a potential threat before it had emerged. That is why Luria went to war with D'Hara. They were the proximate threat.

This may be a true, however from an IG D'Haran perspective Luria's actions seemed little more than betrayal. While I do not doubt that some D'Haran Lords conspired as you mentioned in the past, a lot had changed in D'Hara since then. The vast majority of nobles, and indeed a large number of the House of Lords were entirely unaware of these past discussions and in fact the House had decided to pursue a policy of reconciliation with Luria, championed by many of the younger Lords. So what was seen (understandably) in Luria as eliminating scheming enemies, was seen by the vast majority of D'Harans as an unprovoked betrayal made at the very time we were trying our best to strengthen relations, ostensibly based on some discussion that happened in the distant past and most of us had never seen. It also vindicated the warnings of the older D'Haran Lords that Luria could never be trusted.

I'm not saying either side was right or wrong, however it should be obvious why D'Hara views LN's "make peace and we'll help with  offer" with suspicion and sees it as as little more than an attempt to divert our attention while they deal with LV, in order to more easily destroy us further down the line.

Incidentally, Constantine is in fact in favor of ditching LV to get at Aurvandil but he's not your average D'Haran.

[Chenier]

If you're really all that pragmatic, then I'm really having a hard time seeing what the point is of your continuing to hold out.

At this point, there are basically 2 possibilities:

1) D'Hara makes peace, Luria destroys LV, we go kill Aurvandil
2) Luria destroys LV, D'Hara makes peace so we can go kill Aurvandil

So why do you insist upon delaying the inevitable?

Because LN has yet to convince us that LV dying is inevitable.

You say LV's military is pathetic... we tend to view yours the same way. We got struck in our time of greatest weakness, and we still held out. Our egos are pretty inflated right now (perhaps a bit too much so). Still, D'Hara is D'Hara. If you can prove LV is a liability, or utterly destroy them, D'Hara will drop the matter.

One way or another, we want Aurvandil taken out, but we are also thinking of the post-Aurvandil context. Either LV holds out, and we keep an ally against the realm who has been plotting against us for over four years. Or LV falls, and odds are at least a few of these lurians come to join us and or Fissoa. In any case, D'Hara wins. If D'Hara bails out on LV, our reputation will suffer, and odds are LV nobles will feel betrayed and will therefore be much more likely to re-assimilate into LN.

Because we do believe it's just a matter of time before LN backstabs us again. 'cause sure, D'Hara might have talked a bit about attacking LN... but seriously, the Lurias have been talking about doing the same for over four years. It really didn't take much for the Lurias to break their word. Nobody trusts them, and so LN's word is only so good as our capacity to make sure they respect it.

[Lanyon]

If you're really all that pragmatic, then I'm really having a hard time seeing what the point is of your continuing to hold out.

At this point, there are basically 2 possibilities:

1) D'Hara makes peace, Luria destroys LV, we go kill Aurvandil
2) Luria destroys LV, D'Hara makes peace so we can go kill Aurvandil

So why do you insist upon delaying the inevitable?

why do you want to make war with Aurvandil? I see little reason to jump on the band wagon with the rest of the continent when you could just lick your wounds while everyone else loses manpower

[Lorgan]

I don't intend to lick any wounds. And why? Because Mendicant pissed us off first and foremost and then probably some other reasons. My character is basically an attack dog so I don't bother with things like reasons too much.

[Lorgan]

His realm stocked the out-of-the-way pointless regions with militia, and left the capital-donut townsland region empty.

We were even the defenders in the first battle in Shinnen Purlieus. They had no walls either.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Glaumring is, in fact, the single greatest threat to Dwilight.

http://youtu.be/_sarYH0z948 

[Anaris]

why do you want to make war with Aurvandil? I see little reason to jump on the band wagon with the rest of the continent when you could just lick your wounds while everyone else loses manpower

Stand in Aurvandil. Take a look east. Who do you see there past Fissoa? You know, the next people you'd invade once you finished with them, as soon as you turned your sights in that general direction?

[Solari]

why do you want to make war with Aurvandil? I see little reason to jump on the band wagon with the rest of the continent when you could just lick your wounds while everyone else loses manpower

Because Mendicant invested a lot of time and energy in exploring how to attack Giask by sea, at the behest of Skyndarbau. Nobody in Luria likes Skyndarbau, because be committed the cardinal sin: involving non-Lurians.

People either forget or don't realize that Luria was isolated from the rast of Dwilight for literally years in real time. It's another culture entirely. That attitude has embedded itself in the players as well, such that successive characters from the same families adopt the same feud-driven, vengeful, and long-of-memory culture. It's probably not healthy, but it's home. 

[Chenier]

Scheming against the Lurias is trendy these days.

[Feylonis]

Let me get this straight: the Moot and the SA (I know, not a crusade, but whatever) go to war against Aurvandil. Luria was asked to help, but instead it declared war on D'Hara (a Moot realm). Not a move that really warms up the trust issues.

Now LN claims to want peace so that it can go help in the war against Aurvandil, and claims that D'Hara is the one that's at fault - when the whole mess could have been avoided had LN just supported the war against Aurvandil in the first place. And LN expects the Moot and SA to somehow trust them this time, despite the fact that it was LN who started the war anyway?

:|

[Solari]

Let me get this straight: the Moot and the SA (I know, not a crusade, but whatever) go to war against Aurvandil. Luria was asked to help, but instead it declared war on D'Hara (a Moot realm). Not a move that really warms up the trust issues.

Now LN claims to want peace so that it can go help in the war against Aurvandil, and claims that D'Hara is the one that's at fault - when the whole mess could have been avoided had LN just supported the war against Aurvandil in the first place. And LN expects the Moot and SA to somehow trust them this time, despite the fact that it was LN who started the war anyway?

:|

No. I can see how that would make sense if one ignores the fact that the Moot was weighing if and how it could intervene against Luria, potentially by buddying up to Aurvandil, before war between Barca and Aurvandil started. There's also the small matter of Rynn basically flipping a coin between an alliance with LV or Aurvandil. Either there's some serious propagandizing going on here, or Moot rank and file were (impressively) kept in the dark.

[Chenier]

No. I can see how that would make sense if one ignores the fact that the Moot was weighing if and how it could intervene against Luria, potentially by buddying up to Aurvandil, before war between Barca and Aurvandil started. There's also the small matter of Rynn basically flipping a coin between an alliance with LV or Aurvandil. Either there's some serious propagandizing going on here, or Moot rank and file were (impressively) kept in the dark.

Because remember, the Lurias scheming against D'Hara for over 4 years is fine, D'Hara considering some payback for a few weeks is atrocious.