Luria

[Vellos]

What was the nature of the post-treaty aggression?

Nonexistent.

How was that belief arrived at?

An alleged letter from an unnamed D'Haran ambassador which has yet to surface or be presented in any even semi-public fashion.

Seems like pretty IC chicanery and plotting to me. Maybe some Lurians/D'Harans with secret pro-Aurvandil sympathies. BEGIN THE PURGES!!!

[JeVondair]

Well then let me weigh in on this don't let this affect IC, its way more interesting for our characters to work through it. I am just hoping to alleviate some genuine OOC confusion:

1) There was a single Lurian overture for Peace that Rynn is aware of. It came months ago and was proposed by Malus. You know, the same guy who declared surprise buttseks on D'Hara in the first place. Small wonder why it was not well received. Additionally, D'Hara had JUST made it's alliance with LV which in our eyes caused the massive Lurian army sitting on our doorstep to turn home and attend to closer matters, giving us some breathing room. Therefore accepting any peace after a show of support like that would be lower than low, just throwing LV under the bus. Nope, wasn't gonna happen.

2) Rynn asked each of the Lurian rulers for peace even before this, but was denied by everyone accept, eventually, Bipel. Ya'll all smelled blood in the air and was going for it, you could have stopped then.

3) Of course D'hara wont trust LN when they say "Mah bad, dudes, seriously, lets go kick that OTHER guy's ass, I'm right behind you..." And LN, knowing this, did zero to convince us otherwise. The insisting on peace for LV, as our allies, would have bought a lot of good faith in this regard.

4) The war was never profitable for D'Hara. If we are going to through some IGRP into this, why the heck would we continue an unprofitable venture but for fear of future aforementioned surprise buttseks?

5) Girich. Yup, we were going to attack the hell out of Girich. In fact, Alice sent Rynn her call for peace a few mere hours before landing orders would have been sent. Rynn put everything on hold, talked !@#$ out, and agreed to peace. Done. Finished. He was at Qubel Lighthouse again before half of you even realized D'Hara and Luria Nova were at peace. Then he exuberantly started planning WITH ALICE and luxuriating in D'Hara's first moment of Peace in like 5 years.

6) Everything is going good until WHAM! New duchy! And Alice was all like "Bitch you best give dat !@#$ back or ima cut ya!" and Rynn responded "!@#$ yo couch! Quite cryin cause you lost. Not my fault you didn't see that !@#$ coming. !@#$ nah I didn't know about it bitch!" So basically, to a D'Haran, LuriLogic took over: "Say what? D'Hara's back is turned again? AND we can ake cassus beli? Lucky we got this backstabby knife all set..."

7) Rynn called for a peaceful solution by focusing on big things first, swearing a peaceful return of the regions

Alice swore to kill Rynn if he didn't do what she said.

9) !@#$ Alice

10) Copies of the ambassadors corressondance were dispatched to both the Moot and the Church

[Dante Silverfire]

D'Hara Lurians over the past months has led us to believe they are paranoid, double-dealing idiots geniuses who have a vastly inflated opinion of themselves

There we go. I'm pretty sure that's another way to write that sentence.

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P.S. idk what character you play JeVondair, but our characters would probably get along great.

[Vellos]

There we go. I'm pretty sure that's another way to write that sentence.

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P.S. idk what character you play JeVondair, but our characters would probably get along great.

He plays the Prime Minsiter of D'Hara, Rynn JeVondair.

[Anaris]

Well then let me weigh in on this don't let this affect IC, its way more interesting for our characters to work through it. I am just hoping to alleviate some genuine OOC confusion:

1) There was a single Lurian overture for Peace that Rynn is aware of. It came months ago and was proposed by Malus. You know, the same guy who declared surprise buttseks on D'Hara in the first place. Small wonder why it was not well received. Additionally, D'Hara had JUST made it's alliance with LV which in our eyes caused the massive Lurian army sitting on our doorstep to turn home and attend to closer matters, giving us some breathing room. Therefore accepting any peace after a show of support like that would be lower than low, just throwing LV under the bus. Nope, wasn't gonna happen.

2) Rynn asked each of the Lurian rulers for peace even before this, but was denied by everyone accept, eventually, Bipel. Ya'll all smelled blood in the air and was going for it, you could have stopped then.

I don't know offhand what the details of the previous peace discussions were, except that the terms that D'Hara demanded were always (from LN's perspective) utterly and sometimes ludicrously unacceptable. For which, see below.

3) Of course D'hara wont trust LN when they say "Mah bad, dudes, seriously, lets go kick that OTHER guy's ass, I'm right behind you..." And LN, knowing this, did zero to convince us otherwise. The insisting on peace for LV, as our allies, would have bought a lot of good faith in this regard.

You saying this makes me think you still don't have the slightest clue about the relationship between LN and LV.

As far as Luria Nova was concerned, they shouldn't even have been considered a separate realm; they renounced that right when they broke the Lurian Imperial Charter, and became a rebellious Lurian province, which was entirely a Lurian internal affair. We were also seriously pissed at Bipel and his cronies.

Peace between LN and LV was not ever going to happen. There was not a single thing that could have convinced LN to let LV live. Not even a Morekian army on our borders and the whole of SA crying for our blood, I don't think.

5) Girich. Yup, we were going to attack the hell out of Girich. In fact, Alice sent Rynn her call for peace a few mere hours before landing orders would have been sent. Rynn put everything on hold, talked !@#$ out, and agreed to peace. Done. Finished. He was at Qubel Lighthouse again before half of you even realized D'Hara and Luria Nova were at peace. Then he exuberantly started planning WITH ALICE and luxuriating in D'Hara's first moment of Peace in like 5 years.

6) Everything is going good until WHAM! New duchy! And Alice was all like "Bitch you best give dat !@#$ back or ima cut ya!" and Rynn responded "!@#$ yo couch! Quite cryin cause you lost. Not my fault you didn't see that !@#$ coming. !@#$ nah I didn't know about it bitch!" So basically, to a D'Haran, LuriLogic took over: "Say what? D'Hara's back is turned again? AND we can ake cassus beli? Lucky we got this backstabby knife all set..."

And from our perspective, this was just one more ill-conceived, stupid, and perfectly predictable D'Haran double-cross. We knew that you and LV had been buddy-buddy, and figured this was either your attempt to ensure that LV could survive despite the treaty, or just a better way of attacking us from behind when we tried to attack Aurvandil.

Alice swore to kill Rynn if he didn't do what she said.

9) !@#$ Alice

Yeah, but that didn't happen till after we figured you guys had betrayed us again

[Anaris]

There we go. I'm pretty sure that's another way to write that sentence.

I would note that simply replacing "D'Hara" with "Luria" in my original statement would produce a statement that I would be perfectly willing to accept. In fact, I believe that that's precisely the point.

[Dante Silverfire]

I would note that simply replacing "D'Hara" with "Luria" in my original statement would produce a statement that I would be perfectly willing to accept. In fact, I believe that that's precisely the point.

Fair enough. However, I don't have enough in game knowledge to make that statement, so I modified it where I couldn't be said to just be making conjecture. I think the point got across though as you said.

I think though, that Luria has always been its own separate little entity. It makes it hard for other realms and cultures to connect with Lurians, and has led to IC distrust. I don't exactly know why, because the Moot was essentially founded by ex-Lurians, but whatever.

He plays the Prime Minsiter of D'Hara, Rynn JeVondair.

Ahh okay. If he really wants war with Alice, he could always make me Ambassador of D'Hara or something. Or just make me a lord would probably do it. Although, I guess the point is that he doesn't want war.

[JeVondair]

I don't know offhand what the details of the previous peace discussions were, except that the terms that D'Hara demanded were always (from LN's perspective) utterly and sometimes ludicrously unacceptable. For which, see below.

You saying this makes me think you still don't have the slightest clue about the relationship between LN and LV.

As far as Luria Nova was concerned, they shouldn't even have been considered a separate realm; they renounced that right when they broke the Lurian Imperial Charter, and became a rebellious Lurian province, which was entirely a Lurian internal affair. We were also seriously pissed at Bipel and his cronies.

Peace between LN and LV was not ever going to happen. There was not a single thing that could have convinced LN to let LV live. Not even a Morekian army on our borders and the whole of SA crying for our blood, I don't think.

And from our perspective, this was just one more ill-conceived, stupid, and perfectly predictable D'Haran double-cross. We knew that you and LV had been buddy-buddy, and figured this was either your attempt to ensure that LV could survive despite the treaty, or just a better way of attacking us from behind when we tried to attack Aurvandil.

Yeah, but that didn't happen till after we figured you guys had betrayed us again

Yeah, I know that as a player, but Rynn's character only knows the basics about Luria: That they are a lying pack of conceited, disharmonious bloodthirsty vipers set on world domination. No Lurian had ever attempted to educate him, nor had any former Lurian D'Haran's. And before you ask, Rynn often asks questions from his advisers and peers. In fact, what I know as a player about Lurian internal policies I've only learned from this thread.

Last week.

For example, I had no idea Alice was RPd as a blind woman, especially since her class is still a warrior. It would have made for some badass RP, minus the blind part. Imagine the embarrassment after she declined to dual for that reason!

I agree with you though that this is all entirely in character. But it sure is nice to flip the lights on every once and a while OOC.

@Silverfire, Btw, when Brom was exiled and went to Terran, Rynn asked Alura if you wouldn't prefer life on the Dragon Isles instead. I take it you didn't get the memo?

[Solari]

1) There was a single Lurian overture for Peace that Rynn is aware of. It came months ago and was proposed by Malus. You know, the same guy who declared surprise buttseks on D'Hara in the first place. Small wonder why it was not well received. Additionally, D'Hara had JUST made it's alliance with LV which in our eyes caused the massive Lurian army sitting on our doorstep to turn home and attend to closer matters, giving us some breathing room. Therefore accepting any peace after a show of support like that would be lower than low, just throwing LV under the bus. Nope, wasn't gonna happen.

I'm confused. Which Prime Minister of D'Hara sought to have Iashalur and Morek as guarantors of a peace between LN and D'Hara? Wasn't that Rynn? Was not LN brought in to that discussion? As I understand it, the only sticking point in the terms, which were largely hashed out by every party but LN, was the sudden attachment of LV to the peace terms. Far too often, these forum conversations turn into turdburgers based on a faulty understanding of the facts as they happened. It would benefit us all if we could address this first, before we reduce it to simply talking past one another.

[JeVondair]

I'm confused. Which Prime Minister of D'Hara sought to have Iashalur and Morek as guarantors of a peace between LN and D'Hara? Wasn't that Rynn? Was not LN brought in to that discussion? As I understand it, the only sticking point in the terms, which were largely hashed out by every party but LN, was the sudden attachment of LV to the peace terms. Far too often, these forum conversations turn into turdburgers based on a faulty understanding of the facts as they happened. It would benefit us all if we could address this first, before we reduce it to simply talking past one another.

That was Rynn. In fact, I'm glad you brought that up because it was another thing that Irritated Rynn because D'hara "was brought in to that discussion" as well. Those peace talks regarding the Lurian-D'Haran war were initially made without D'Hara's knowledge. All of a sudden, Ingi shows up and is like "Dude, I talked them down, you should go with this."

Now the treaty was cool.  I remember something about Luria ceding all rights to the Sallowscape Duchy. To be honest, I really regret being unable to accept thanks to the recent commitment with LV. But again, it was made without D'Hara and therefore didn't represent our current interest, which included LV at that time.

Don't let that distract you, though, because the big point is that Had those discussions been made with us in the loop, rather than randomly in the background and suddenly proposed, it probably definitely would have prevented the LV-D'Hara alliance and ended the war. Period. Months ago. Done.

[Dante Silverfire]

@Silverfire, Btw, when Brom was exiled and went to Terran, Rynn asked Alura if you wouldn't prefer life on the Dragon Isles instead. I take it you didn't get the memo?

Replied IC. That's where this is mroe relevant.

[Vellos]

@Silverfire, Btw, when Brom was exiled and went to Terran, Rynn asked Alura if you wouldn't prefer life on the Dragon Isles instead. I take it you didn't get the memo?

I swear if Rynn or any D'Haran pulls one more idiotic stunt that antagonizes the Lurias, Hireshmont will go ape-!@#$ crazy. This has been too long and painful a wait for peace to have it get screwed up again.

[Dante Silverfire]

I swear if Rynn or any D'Haran pulls one more idiotic stunt that antagonizes the Lurias, Hireshmont will go ape-!@#$ crazy. This has been too long and painful a wait for peace to have it get screwed up again.

Hireshmont already is. I'm sorry, I don't know how he bribed his way to the elders of SA, but I've only ever heard bad things about him. (Including his realm-mates while he was leader)

[Solari]

That was Rynn. In fact, I'm glad you brought that up because it was another thing that Irritated Rynn because D'hara "was brought in to that discussion" as well. Those peace talks regarding the Lurian-D'Haran war were initially made without D'Hara's knowledge. All of a sudden, Ingi shows up and is like "Dude, I talked them down, you should go with this."

Don't let that distract you, though, because the big point is that Had those discussions been made with us in the loop, rather than randomly in the background and suddenly proposed, it probably definitely would have prevented the LV-D'Hara alliance and ended the war. Period. Months ago. Done.

Interesting! I didn't know that was how it developed. So we have Morek to blame for everything!

[Solari]

Hireshmont already is. I'm sorry, I don't know how he bribed his way to the elders of SA, but I've only ever heard bad things about him. (Including his realm-mates while he was leader)

Hireshmont is well regarded in Luria, I think. Terran too, to some extent. They're the responsible sibling in the 'Moot family.