Luria

[Chenier]

Rynn: that was a joke. Chénier avoided a simple, well-intentioned question and instead lobbed a turd, and I responded in kind. I'm glad you found my comment bewildering, and maybe even a little counterproductive. You can imagine how many people have come to feel after years of Chénier demonstrating an unwillingness to converse about things-involving-Chénier like someone who isn't running for public office, selling something, or deluded.

Chénier: the question was pretty simple. What was the specific "bull!@#$" to which you referred? Why don't you give people a chance to respond?

What about Malus interpreting "well, we all want peace but maybe a few dudes may not get the order in time and may land anyways" as being "yea, we signed peace, but we will TOTALLY invade you guys and it was all a secret plan to deceive you and crush the Lurias less than a day after reaching an agreement!"?

And then all of the Lurias acting all scandalized about D'Hara's "treachery"? As if we'd for some reason make an agreement just to break it less than a day after by sending a few troops in a rural you wouldn't have defended anyways?

I have a hard time considering that as anything else than bull!@#$.

[Penchant]

D'harans usually have lots of gold, but no food. She now has D'haran gold. She is happy. She'll go shopping soon

Kinda the opposite, especially now. D'harans make bank but spend it on food traditionally so it was good to be a knight, traditionally. Now D'harans make not a !@#$ty amount of gold but I wouldn't exactly call it a decent income either, so D'hara's banker (me) is losing gold while the rest aren't really being affected, which means the lords are getting an ok income while most knights, except for those in a region making a fair amount of gold, get crappy pay but get gold from lords when needed. (I pay those who bought food the price they bought it for so if they paid 40 gold per 100 bushels, I pay them that price, while selling to D'haran lords at 25 gold per 100 bushels generally.)

[Chenier]

Kinda the opposite, especially now. D'harans make bank but spend it on food traditionally so it was good to be a knight, traditionally. Now D'harans make not a !@#$ty amount of gold but I wouldn't exactly call it a decent income either, so D'hara's banker (me) is losing gold while the rest aren't really being affected, which means the lords are getting an ok income while most knights, except for those in a region making a fair amount of gold, get crappy pay but get gold from lords when needed. (I pay those who bought food the price they bought it for so if they paid 40 gold per 100 bushels, I pay them that price, while selling to D'haran lords at 25 gold per 100 bushels generally.)

I'd say the knights who make crappy pays are also under lords who make crappy pays. But we did direct our knights to the lords that weren't making a crappy pay as much as possible. I don't think there are that many poor knights who have a rich liege, are there?

[Penchant]

I'd say the knights who make crappy pays are also under lords who make crappy pays. But we did direct our knights to the lords that weren't making a crappy pay as much as possible. I don't think there are that many poor knights who have a rich liege, are there?

Yeah and one or two knights with decent income when it should be a lot better because of Port Nebel having a 50% lord share.

[Tandaros]

D'Haran knights can be ballers, I can attest to that. And liege lords tend to be very giving.

[Chenier]

And D'Haran knights could much more easily trade, at least back in the peace days. Which could yield interesting profits. Not sure if we have that many traders running around, these days. I hope we get the glorious trading days back eventually.

[Sypher]

Go back to your own thread D'hara, unless you are considering yourselves Lurian now? 

Lurian Lords & Knights earn a good wage. In Sun Hall Duchy the duchy tax is quite low as well. Most get more than 100 gold/week and I think the last tax report had some knights earning more than 200. My own character is really well off. He's accumulated a large stash of gold and bonds.

[Arundel]

But hey, they honestly believe their crap. Their new queen though that D'Hara had "declared war to protect Luria Vesperi", when Luria Nova and Solaria had been the ones to declare war on D'Hara.

I'm sorry to have angered you on the basis of RPing bad memory/apathy? Obviously, Alice didn't care about Solaria's war, or Luria Nova's subsequent declaration, but was intent on the war between them at the time which was LV + D'Hara vs. LN, since that was the trend in the battles they fought. In other words, she forgot that the actual declarations were made by Lurians. When Rynn reminded her, she didn't argue.

She also brought up a bunch of bullocks about D'Hara having always been Lurian, when the previous deal they offered to D'Hara explicitly stated that Luria Nova would recognize Sallowcape as D'Haran.

That deal was not proposed or seen by Alice? And yes, Alice believes D'Hara to be a rogue Lurian nation.

PeL makes the colony of Shadovar on the Tomb Islands. Shadovar is considered a Lurian Tyranny. Duchess Katayanna, a Lurian Duchess, secedes from the Lurian colony of Shadovar and becomes the Lurian monarch of D'Hara, making it a Lurian monarchy. I'm not sure if you spotted the word "Lurian" in there, but that's how Alice sees it.

And they get uppity about a ceasefire agreement in order to attack a third party actually includes, you know, a clause that states that action will be taken against said party? I was expecting some of the clauses that were added without my knowing to be contentious, but no, it's the clause about actually having to eventually get involved, as opposed to letting D'Hara start another front to then better backstab it...

What? Ceding claims, handing over Girich, and going to war within a month were all reasons for denying the terms. I honestly don't know what to tell you. Get better info before going on the forums about it?

[Samboji]

I really do hope that our allies know just how much this "new deal" thing means to us. Basically, it doesn't mean very much at all. Not in comparison to what LN would have had. We were about to take the rest of the Vesperian lands and then move on to D'hara.
 
Now, we're not doing squat. I'm aware that there's probably heaps going on behind the scenes politcally, but having all of Luria Vesperi + D'hara under Novan control seems a lot better for us than having a moderately weak ally not get rofl-stomped by someone miles away. In a war that there's absolutely no hope of us gaining anything but a bit of prestige and honour, both IG and in the eyes of our allies, whilst giving us a good chance of killing off heaps of our troops and leaving us completely open to being backdoored by our most recently made enemies. It makes a lot more sense historically, and IC views of these things as well, to continue the taking of Vesprian lands and the stomping D'hara than what has happened. Instant ceasefire and realm flip against our enemies is cool? Becoming their allies through such ceasefires to partake in another war, side by side with them is fine? I think most characters would rather a united Luria and an impotent or non-existant D'hara than any amount of weak allies that don't really help much anyway.

Yaayyyyy treaties. I guess Morek doesn't really like the idea of LN being right beside them on two fronts. D'hara must be so much easier (and more profitable) to push around. This diversion has just stopped LN becoming a true powerhouse, which suits plenty of realms fine.

I personally am of the opinion that the realm flip gives us reason to go against the ceasefire. Or just loot the hell out of the realms that flipped. The gold that's going to be taken is rightfully LN's anyway, through the right of arms (the justice of having multiple big-damn armies stealing everything they can get their hands on from a former enemy's/ally's territory is a VERY medieval concept).

"Sorry Fissoa, you'll have to look after yourselves for a bit. We've got us some looting to do, and some territory to take. We'll be down soon. Honestly........."

[Chenier]

What? Ceding claims, handing over Girich, and going to war within a month were all reasons for denying the terms. I honestly don't know what to tell you. Get better info before going on the forums about it?

Cession of claims was offered by your previous ruler.

Girich... yea, that was dumb, I have no idea who modified my draft to add that clause. Still, that's not the one you made a fuss about.

Going to war within a month... How is that so incredibly unreasonable? Get your ass over to Fissoa already, if you truly want to get involved. A month is a long time.

blablabla stomping D'Hara blablabla

You couldn't "stomp D'Hara" when we had nothing but a few starving regions left to our realm and you launched a surprise attack, what on earth makes you think you could pull it off now?

Man, what is it with these Lurians, always distorting history, thinking they could waltz over the islands whenever and take them without effort when they utterly and pathetically failed when it was most easiest to do so, forgetting that Luria Vesperi actually got into the conflict very late.

D'Hara now has more regions, better production, and more nobles. We ain't no pushover.

The Lurias were united before, they weren't anything impressive back then and won't be anything impressive when they do so again.

[Lorgan]

Man, what is it with these Lurians, always distorting history

Hahahahahahaha.

Oh man, that's hilarious. Really: priceless.

Sure, there may be some of that going on in Luria but to read it from you... yup, this takes one of the top places in the funniest moments of BM. 

[Chenier]

Hahahahahahaha.

Oh man, that's hilarious. Really: priceless.

Sure, there may be some of that going on in Luria but to read it from you... yup, this takes one of the top places in the funniest moments of BM. 

It's like when they got all uppity about D'Hara considering action against them, when they've been doing the same since D'Hara was founded.

[JeVondair]

What I find that's interesting is the inherited hatreds all our characters got from the previous generation who, by and large, are either no longer playing, now in other realms, or no longer even on the island. Alice started playing on a little before Rynn himself did, they are even the same age or very close to it. Never met each other or actually did anything to each other, but completely loath one another because of what side of the fence they are on. It's great to RP.

The Girich clause? Yeah, that was me. Never expected it to stick, but I was looking at it from a bartering perspective, e.g. Start with an obscenely high price and negotiate. Alice no likey negotiatey.

Background politics? Well, one kid was playing around and accidently knocked a ball away. Another kid picked it up and thought "Wow, a real live ball! How fortunate am I? I shall nuzzle it and play with it and name it D'Hara 2.0." All was well and good until the first kid RAISED BLOODY !@#$ING MURDER TO HAVE HER GAHDAMNED BALL BACK. The other kid shrugged and rolled it back, tearfully waving goodbye as he sent it on it's way. It's STILL on its way, trundling along as the first kid screams obscenities at it to encourage it to move faster, while the other kid moves on to other things, like helping his bro against the OTHER schoolyard bully.

But yeah, no, the chance for Luria to take on D'Hara successfully came and went. You might as well get used our island tans and moneygrubbing. We ain't goin' no where.

[Chenier]

What I find that's interesting is the inherited hatreds all our characters got from the previous generation who, by and large, are either no longer playing, now in other realms, or no longer even on the island. Alice started playing on a little before Rynn himself did, they are even the same age or very close to it. Never met each other or actually did anything to each other, but completely loath one another because of what side of the fence they are on. It's great to RP.

Machiavel was there since the birth of D'Hara, and many other D'Harans have been around for at least one episode of Lurian imperialism and threats. It may predate a few D'Harans, and a lot seems to predate a lot of Lurians, but there are still many people around that were involved since the beginning of tensions or who were party to at least one episode. The House of Lords may be often quiet, but it'd blaze up quickly if you started talking too good of the Lurians.

The Girich clause? Yeah, that was me. Never expected it to stick, but I was looking at it from a bartering perspective, e.g. Start with an obscenely high price and negotiate. Alice no likey negotiatey.

Yea... I was expecting them to negotiate on what I had already proposing. Asking for too much is just insulting, and makes the other party shut down and not want to negotiate at all, as they did (though they might have even without the clause, it sure didn't help).

But yeah, no, the chance for Luria to take on D'Hara successfully came and went. You might as well get used our island tans and moneygrubbing. We ain't goin' no where.

And snuggle fests. We love 'em snuggle fests, we of the 'moot.

[Arundel]

Cession of claims was offered by your previous ruler.

Girich... yea, that was dumb, I have no idea who modified my draft to add that clause. Still, that's not the one you made a fuss about.

Going to war within a month... How is that so incredibly unreasonable? Get your ass over to Fissoa already, if you truly want to get involved. A month is a long time.

1. Alice is not Fulco, surprise!

2. Why are you trying to tell me I didn't do something, when I'm the one who did it?

For your convenience:

"Prime Minister Rynn,

I reject your proposals outright, and condemn them for their misuse of the situation. I do not care if your people do not trust mine (the same situation is true vice-versa) and I do not care if your people fear an attack or not. I will tell you what matters: neither D'hara or Luria Nova is winning the war between them, territories are the same as they were before the declaration of war by Solaria, an equal amount of victories (roughly) favor both sides, and both sides have military intentions elsewhere.

In no way, shape, or form will Luria Nova forsake its claims on the Lurian realm of Shadovar, colony of Pian en Luries, nor will it forsake them to the rogue Lurian realm that sprouted from its core. In addition, under no circumstance will Luria Nova cede Girich. Simply put, you are in no position to make demands, and neither are we.

Moreover, forcing my realm to attack the Southern realms in a month is preposterous. It is our next target, do not fret, but I will not confine myself to the boundaries you have set. Luria Nova has pledged its support to the Fissoan campaign against Falkirk, and thus will move to aid the Grand Duchy when it is ready and able to. If that happens under a month, the better, if not, then soon enough after that.

With that said, I firmly propose a white peace, once again, to assure status quo ante bellum, so that we may focus on the Southern realms and be done with this conflict. If not, my armies will march on yours, and I will tell Morek and Corsanctum that we must postpone aiding them against Aurvandil because the Isles got greedy when they shouldn't have.

Faithfully Luria's,

Alice Arundel
Queen of Luria Nova"

Seems like an equal amount of fussing to me. Not to mention, I fussed about the territories first. But hey, I guess you know more than I do when it comes to things Alice does and doesn't say, right?

3. Why is it unreasonable?

"11. D'Hara and Luria Nova will have up to one month to make an official declaration of war and attack upon one of the southern orvando-saxon realms.
11.1 If such a declaration and attack do not happen within a month, the realms Luria Nova will be expected to contribute to the other's campaign. As soon as the month deadline expires, the faulty party Luria Nova will be expected to donate 2000 gold to the other party. If a week passes by past the deadline, again without an attack, a new donation of 5000 gold will be expected. If an attack is still not held a week after then, and for every week that follows, donations of 10000 gold will be expected. If the realm Luria Nova has not only failed to attack, but has also not made a single war declaration, this amounts will be doubled."

D'Hara was obviously ready to invade, with an army (which was about to attack Girich (surprise again)) close to its capital and ready to set sail. Luria Nova, on the other hand, was and still is concluding its war with Luria Vesperi. Lands must be consolidated, taken care of, and armies refitted. Plus, things had (still have) to be rectified within the realm.

I was looking at 1-2 months time, before war. Luria Nova already made its own promises, and was set to declare war when it was good and able to. I'm sorry that Luria Nova is an independent realm, and would like to do things on its own?