Overhaul of character creation process

[vonGenf]

Title: Overhaul of character creation process

Summary: Create new character directly with their own estates.

Details:

Instead of the current duchy-centric one, why don't we show new characters a list of open estates and allow them to pick one, spawning them right there, in that realm and all? That would give free estates more of a "please come in" meaning, and it would also save newcomers from the trouble of coming into a realm, asking for an estate, having to travel there, etc. etc. etc.


If someone writes this up as a feature request, I'll immediately approve it.

Benefits:

-New character would save the hassle of travelling to their chosen location and start there instead
-When choosing your new character, seeing the list of available estates is meaningful information

Possible Exploits:

-This may create an OOC race for realms to always have profitable estates available to attract more new players (this is not necessarily a bad thing, but is slightly metagamey)
-Allowing players to choose exactly their starting location may allow badly intended people to rapidly create one character, wreak havoc, and then pause. For example, you could create a new character right in the region where your enemy is, set your unit to murderous to wreak havoc, and then pause. But that's clearly abuse and is probably possible anyway if your set your mind to it, so should not be too high of a concern.

[Brant]

Will this mean that you can't join a realm if there are no vacant estates?

I can see this causing a reason for expansion, which is good, but it may also cause lords to create nice estates to lure in new knights, then changing them to make room for the next 'bait estate'.   If this is implemented (I do like the idea!) we should make it harder to resize estates... maybe a maximum that you can change an estate/lord's share  per day?

[Tom]

I don't think "bait estates" will be a major problem. What are you going to do with a dozen disgruntled nobles in your realm? If they aren't good for anything, there's no point in having them.


I don't think we should allow only estate joining, but it should be the primary option.

[vonGenf]

I don't think "bait estates" will be a major problem. What are you going to do with a dozen disgruntled nobles in your realm? If they aren't good for anything, there's no point in having them.

That wasn't my concern. Rather, my concern is that a realm that gathers information about the available estates may be tempted to make sure they are always at the top of the estates list newbies see to attract them. Meanwhile, its opponent realm who do not try to metagame the system is always second, and the first realm ends up with more nobles.

One way to avoid this would be to show available estates, but only revenue range (e.g. between 50 and 100 gold, between 100 and 150 gold, etc).

[egamma]

That wasn't my concern. Rather, my concern is that a realm that gathers information about the available estates may be tempted to make sure they are always at the top of the estates list newbies see to attract them. Meanwhile, its opponent realm who do not try to metagame the system is always second, and the first realm ends up with more nobles.

One way to avoid this would be to show available estates, but only revenue range (e.g. between 50 and 100 gold, between 100 and 150 gold, etc).

Don't sort realm list by number of estates; instead, have a list of estates, sorted by income. Columns would be:

Estate Name
Region
Duchy
Realm
Expected income

[Bedwyr]

Can I suggest some text about the Oath be included as well?  Give some people an idea of what the lord and/or realm might be like.

[Marlboro]

Can I suggest some text about the Oath be included as well?  Give some people an idea of what the lord and/or realm might be like.

This would be neat. Anything to make oaths more of a thing.

[Perth]

Can I suggest some text about the Oath be included as well?  Give some people an idea of what the lord and/or realm might be like.

Custom Oath box.

When a Lord creates a new estate in their region, there is a text box where the Lord should write in the Oath.

It could be prefaced by something like: "By setting up your estate here under Lord X, you agree to the Lord's terms and swear the following oath to him/her:"

Have a say, 200-250 word limit on the box. Not only would this be shown in game, but also on this new character creation screen. The same should be done for regions aligning to a duke and his duchy.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Custom Oath box.

When a Lord creates a new estate in their region, there is a text box where the Lord should write in the Oath.

It could be prefaced by something like: "By setting up your estate here under Lord X, you agree to the Lord's terms and swear the following oath to him/her:"

Have a say, 200-250 word limit on the box. Not only would this be shown in game, but also on this new character creation screen. The same should be done for regions aligning to a duke and his duchy.

Ok everyone, before we start over-complicating this feature, let's just focus on getting the basics of what we want in. Namely, being able to take up an estate at character creation. That is all we should aim for, since this would be a completely new feature to the game. Then, after it is implemented, we can add to it.

[Tom]

That wasn't my concern. Rather, my concern is that a realm that gathers information about the available estates may be tempted to make sure they are always at the top of the estates list newbies see to attract them. Meanwhile, its opponent realm who do not try to metagame the system is always second, and the first realm ends up with more nobles.

You are assuming that there is a list by realms and its sorted by something. Where do you get that assumption? It's not like the current duchy list would work that way.

[Tom]

You are still thinking in the old system.

There are no explicit oaths in the new estate system. The deal is land vs. tax revenue.

[vonGenf]

Ok everyone, before we start over-complicating this feature, let's just focus on getting the basics of what we want in. Namely, being able to take up an estate at character creation. That is all we should aim for, since this would be a completely new feature to the game. Then, after it is implemented, we can add to it.

I have to agree. While I like the idea of a free-form oath, it is entirely independent from the proposal as it is. It can be requested separately afterwards.

[Foundation]

Remember, the more complicated the idea becomes, the less likely it will be accepted in the end.

[Darksun]

Remember, the more complicated the idea becomes, the less likely it will be accepted in the end.

Tell that to my clients

Can we just add this as a metric to the current list of metrics that are displayed?

Sample flow:
1) Continent Selection (no change)
2) Realm Selection
- Number of available estates in each realm
- Average income of available estates
- At this point the character is created in the realm of their choosing
-- Makes estate shoppers very easy to spot
-- Allows for realms without available estates to still be selected as a destination
3) Estate Selection (if estates are available)
- List of available estates is shown (Name | Income | Region | Duchy)
- User can select an available estate or skip this step
-- Allows RPers or someone who doesn't just want a vacant estate to get into the game... perhaps a light warning message here about the need to have an estate for income could be shown

[Tom]

No, the flow should be a ton simpler:

• continent selection
• table with free estates, one click to pick one
• at the bottom: an option to start without an estate in a realm of your choice

The table at #2 would show the estate name (if any), its size and estimated tax income and the region, duchy and realm.