Upward Slope for Newcomers to do stuff.

[Colin Ealdwine]

Hi. I'm a new player (tad over two weeks) and BattleMaster is awesome. However, having a class other than warrior requires honor and prestige. Which, realistically speaking can only be gained through fighting. (There are other means, but given their speed I'm not sure what the point is as a new person) Fighting is awesome, but not always available. So while I adore the game, I can't do what I want to do (Become a priest and a diplomat) without either becoming a courtier and waiting a very long time, or fighting as a warrior. Except, as a knight, if I fall in a realm without a war, it's not very obvious for me how I'm supposed to go about gaining all these stats. The game doesn't tell you from what I've seen what you need for each class, neither does the wiki.

This is a serious problem for me, and is I believe a serious problem if BattleMaster is to grow in population. I've played the game for two weeks, and I have no clue how I'm going to play the game the way I want. I'm not saying destroy the glass ceiling, but maybe it'd be beneficial for new players to be able to play the game their way sooner. Why can't people become priests without gaining prestige and honor? They certainly can't gain any doing priestly things. I'm sure it's to prevent abuse, which is important. However, after two weeks, the only thing keeping me going is my waning interest and the occasional IG letter I get. I'm a pretty patient guy, I wonder how many people get pushed away because they can't play the game their way.

As for "Start a war, silly!" newcomers have no power. They're the furthest from opportunities to start trouble and the ones who most benefit from the H/P that is gained from trouble. 

Well, that's my two cents, and thanks for listening/making a fun game.

[Indirik]

The H/P limits are in place to allow new players to learn the basics of the game prior to starting the more advanced classes. Sometimes the realm you start in does not offer the combat experience you need to get honor and prestige you need, quick enough. That's why you have multiple character slots to experience more of the game. If you can't get enough H/P in your first realm, pause your character and start somewhere else. Ask the people on IRC (or the forums) where you can get some heavy combat.

[Colin Ealdwine]

Experience, but experience in an unrelated thing? Bit of a non sequitur. Yeah, but having to pause out every time you go to a place that isn't combat filled you need to pause... just seems like a bad "feature" honestly.

[Eithad]

Battlemaster is a game that really opens up and has tons of depth as you play it. However the idea is that things open up slowly and gradually a bit at a time. The priest and the diplomat game are not what battlemaster is about, they are add-ons to increase depth of the main game. It is not something you jump into because the game is different and frankly much more boring. This is why those H/P requirements are in place. Discovering new things and more areas of the game is what keeps me playing.

The real issue here is that realms aren't going to war as much as they used to.

[JPierreD]

Nor H/P is gained as it used to be.

Question: if the limit is to allow players to learn about the game before trying more advanced classes, why not make it about time of play (of the family)? Those who have Kings, Dukes, Cavaliers or any kind of experienced character and make a new one cannot become Traders, Heroes or even Priests with it. Why is that?

[Eithad]

H/P is still gained as it used to be, in fact it is gained quicker than it used to be at lower levels. It is only after you reach most of the thresholds required for classes and positions that the rate of gain starts to slow.

[Colin Ealdwine]

Battlemaster is a game that really opens up and has tons of depth as you play it. However the idea is that things open up slowly and gradually a bit at a time. The priest and the diplomat game are not what battlemaster is about, they are add-ons to increase depth of the main game. It is not something you jump into because the game is different and frankly much more boring. This is why those H/P requirements are in place. Discovering new things and more areas of the game is what keeps me playing.

The real issue here is that realms aren't going to war as much as they used to.

And there is where I politely have to disagree. They are not "add-ons" but separate and important parts. A large part of the game is RP, of which a huge part is religion. The game would still unfold if people could play the class they wanted without forced experience in other classes. What if I want to RP a pacifist priest? He has to slaughter his way to pacifism because of game mechanics if I want to become a priest any time soon? This does not seem like the way to do things. You can discover new things without being forced through a certain set of "unlocks"

"because the game is different and frankly much more boring"

To you, quite likely. To another person, maybe not, and if the game is difference, what bit of (har) difference does it make if I slave away as a warrior only to learn a brand new game?

[Indirik]

@colin: there really is nothing unrelated in the game. It all ties together, and interacts. In order to really understand that, you need to learn how all the foundations work. Even experienced players get tripped up. As a diplomat, how are you going to write a treaty, or negotiate a surrender or border agreement if you don't know what options are available? How can you be an effective priest when you don't know how religion works, and interacts with all the other mechanics.

So, yes, it may be a bit of a slow start, but you need to start that way to make sure you know how stuff works.

[Eithad]

Its called Wiki Indirik, its the new fad.

[Indirik]

@JPierreD: please open a separate thread to discuss the aspect of experienced player.

[Marlboro]

I've been at it for like eight months, only subclass I've dipped into so far was Hero(ine).

It... ended badly. XD

Red was a Courtier for as long as it took him to change back to Warrior just because I being new thought the realm would get mad if I had to keep asking for gold to refit. What realm, you ask?

Why, the Cagilan Empire. *Puts on dunce cap.*

[Gustav Kuriga]

@colin: there really is nothing unrelated in the game. It all ties together, and interacts. In order to really understand that, you need to learn how all the foundations work. Even experienced players get tripped up. As a diplomat, how are you going to write a treaty, or negotiate a surrender or border agreement if you don't know what options are available? How can you be an effective priest when you don't know how religion works, and interacts with all the other mechanics.

So, yes, it may be a bit of a slow start, but you need to start that way to make sure you know how stuff works.

You're arguing with a newcomer about what is good and bad for newcomers... Indirik, you lost this argument before it even began. I agree with Colin.

[Indirik]

It's not an argument. It's a discussion and explanation.

[Lefanis]

Rather than Honor and prestige determinant, why not make the switch to priest dependant upon time in realm? Say two weeks. The newbie has had enough time to learn about the basic game, and can switch to the religion game if he or she wants to.

We let people become adventurers right off the bat (granted, for rp reasons, but still), so rather than having Honor and prestige determine worthiness for a class like priest, we could simply run some sort of timer.

And I blame lack of war on removal of TMP. 

[Perth]

I agree the restrictions should be more of a timer thing than the H/P experience thing.