What makes an SMA Religion?

[DamnTaffer]

I am not discussing hypotheticals on the forum. There is no profit in doing that, and past experience has shown that my comments are taken out of context and used in ways I never intended.

If someone wants to know my opinion on a specific actually existing (in-game) religion, I'll give it, but I won't discuss theoretical scenarios above pointing out basic no-gos.

Considering this debacle why would anyone make a nonstandard religion on dwilight, with indirik calling Glaumuring's faith not suitable for SMA and the surrounding !@#$storm not having some steadfast tomspeak saying "You don't need to make a traditional psudo christian or parthanon religion to not get modded" rather disuades from not just rehashing christianity.

[Indirik]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And as you can see, I'm not the only one who felt that the Cult of Bloodmoon, as it is presented, just doesn't measure up. And since enforcing SMA is the task of the players, it is up to the players to speak up when they see something that doesn't fit. If the objections raised help mold CoB into something that does fit SMA, then we're all better off for it.

[JPierreD]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And as you can see, I'm not the only one who felt that the Cult of Bloodmoon, as it is presented, just doesn't measure up. And since enforcing SMA is the task of the players, it is up to the players to speak up when they see something that doesn't fit. If the objections raised help mold CoB into something that does fit SMA, then we're all better off for it.

Well, besides what was said was going to be changed, what else do you think should no longer be? In case you name worshiping fruits, do you consider Astroism to be SMA?
Know that the worship of plans implies, as all Shamanic traditions, there are spirits that manifest themselves through the plants (specifically through their consumption). In case of the Ayahuasca, for example, there is a large myth on the two plants used in making it, one being the Father and the other the Mother. It's not just saying "this cucumber is my god, and that is all".

[Indirik]

Well, besides what was said was going to be changed, what else do you think should no longer be?

If the religion encompasses some higher power or supernatural being/force that they worship, and use the Bloodmoon fruit as a conduit to that power, IMO that would fit the bill for SMA. If the religion is like that Nomudou thing that used to be in the south somewhere, where the "religion" is really just a thin mask over big joke about drinking yourself into oblivion (or in CoB's case it just glorifies taking psychedelic drugs and uses the "religion" aspect as a thin cover to try and claim IC legitimacy (Edit: This is for comparison's sake, I am not claiming that's what CoB really is...)), then no, it's not SMA.

In case you name worshiping fruits, do you consider Astroism to be SMA?

Well that's a pretty silly question, isn't it?

Know that the worship of plans implies, as all Shamanic traditions, there are spirits that manifest themselves through the plants (specifically through their consumption). In case of the Ayahuasca, for example, there is a large myth on the two plants used in making it, one being the Father and the other the Mother. It's not just saying "this cucumber is my god, and that is all".

Looks to me like they're not worshiping the plant itself, are they? The plant may be sacred, and they use it to prepare their drug, which they use in religious rights. But they don't *worship* the plants. (Unless I read the Wikipedia page wrong...)

[Geronus]

Aye. I think the religion would be more interesting if some type of theology was developed that venerated the bloodmoon fruit as a conduit to communing with the Divine, be they gods or spirits of some type. It's not very religion-y without that component.

[Glaumring the Fox]

It is about communig with the divine, we just havent had time as players to bounce some ideas back and forth, they used to be for communing with the bloodstars, but since the crusade threats the bloodstars might as well not exist for people just outside the faith, which eventually shoots yourselves in the foot for interesting plot ideas.

Plus I dont do drugs in real life ( yeah hard to believe) so this isnt just some vehicle for me to RP a stoner just like real life.

[JPierreD]

If the religion encompasses some higher power or supernatural being/force that they worship, and use the Bloodmoon fruit as a conduit to that power, IMO that would fit the bill for SMA. If the religion is like that Nomudou thing that used to be in the south somewhere, where the "religion" is really just a thin mask over big joke about drinking yourself into oblivion (or in CoB's case it just glorifies taking psychedelic drugs and uses the "religion" aspect as a thin cover to try and claim IC legitimacy (Edit: This is for comparison's sake, I am not claiming that's what CoB really is...)), then no, it's not SMA.

Fair enough.

Looks to me like they're not worshiping the plant itself, are they? The plant may be sacred, and they use it to prepare their drug, which they use in religious rights. But they don't *worship* the plants. (Unless I read the Wikipedia page wrong...)

Let's put it like this: they believe there is a spiritual plane to which the Ayahuasca helps you connect (they give personality to it, and treat it as an entity). It also takes you in the sessions towards moments of suffering and confrontation of your problems (the father/vine-part does that) and others of bliss, auto-forgiveness and stuff (the mother/leave-part), in order to teach you and make you grow spiritually. They are considered deities but their influence is restricted to those sessions, so you won't see them praying for them in their daily lives. They have tons of other deities, but that is another matter. (Just for if you were wondering, I personally know a native-american shaman and my uncle is very into it.)

What they specifically worship can be misinterpreted. It's similar to the Catholic's host and the transubstantiation. They believe that during the mass the host is the body of Christ, which is worshiped, though if I told you Catholics worship hosts you'd likely take it as a joke. They don't worship the piece of bread, they do to Jesus who they believe to make himself present in it. Similarly with the Ayahuasca, they consider the leaves and vines and the brew divine because they carry/are/make present the aforementioned spirits/deities, which take you to a spiritual dimension and all that.

[Penchant]

It is about communig with the divine, we just havent had time as players to bounce some ideas back and forth, they used to be for communing with the bloodstars, but since the crusade threats the bloodstars might as well not exist for people just outside the faith, which eventually shoots yourselves in the foot for interesting plot ideas.

Plus I dont do drugs in real life ( yeah hard to believe) so this isnt just some vehicle for me to RP a stoner just like real life.

Are you the founder of the religion? I know that in-game Ven Dhalgren founded it but was it your idea or hers/his?

[Geronus]

I don't know about the religion itself, but Glaumring has been RPing about Bloodmoon fruit and its hallucinogenic properties for many years dating back to the original Thulsoma (pre-Saxon takeover).

[Dhalgren]

http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Cult_of_Bloodmoon

ok so, i think i got carried away, yet i like it. it is a religion with spirit worship at the popular level, and a hermetic religion at the secret ones (european medieval hermeticism).

to answer a couple of posts above the content and ideas here are all mine, but obviously Glaumring role-played the bloodmoon for ages and had a secret guild founded in thulsoma, so the starting point is his.

I am not sure if this or the cult of bloodmoon thread is appropriate for they overlap a lot, apologies if mistaken

[Glaumring the Fox]

Yeah Ven! Awesome.  I am the Walrus! You are the Eggman! Kookachoo!

Seriously one of the only people who gets it, gets it all!

[Dhalgren]

It needs much work, especially the visionary stage for it is the popular one and most widespread. I want to add rituals and worship of the Influences to get good fortune etc.

Those are the core ideas anyway. comments on how to improve it/ make it more sma are very welcome.

[JPierreD]

Simply beautiful.

[Indirik]

Discussion of the CoB should be in the thread for it. This is a generic thread about SMA and religion.