Cult (part of religion)

[egamma]

Geronus--perfect.

I still think we need a mechanism to allow the merger of religions. It would have to require that both faiths acknowlege each other as variants for a period of one year. And I think that some of the followers (hardliners) would think that the merger is heresy, and disband--leading to a 20% loss of followers.

[Aldwoni]

Who can create a Sect/Cult?
I suggest either a priest ,an elder or both.
Who can Schism?
I suggest an elder (priest) in the cult/Sect.
What do peasants do?
- If there is an temple they follow the temple
- no temple but an priest estate, they follow the priest(multiple priests mean half the peasants join new religion)
- no temple + no priest estate, follow the lords religion
- none of the above: half for each.

[Bedwyr]

Who can create a Sect/Cult?
I suggest either a priest ,an elder or both.
Who can Schism?
I suggest an elder (priest) in the cult/Sect.
What do peasants do?
- If there is an temple they follow the temple
- no temple but an priest estate, they follow the priest(multiple priests mean half the peasants join new religion)
- no temple + no priest estate, follow the lords religion
- none of the above: half for each.

I'd say creating a sect should be an Elder, Schism would have to be Elder Priest.  What the peasants do makes sense (with some randomness added because nothing in life is ever neat).

[Geronus]

My only concern about limiting the ability to schism to Elders is it makes it too easy to maintain control of the situation. A founder or other high ranker can simply demote anyone he suspects and never promote anyone who might schism, i.e. anyone who's in a sect.

It should be a spiritual leader who declares the schism (i.e. a priest), but I think it gets complicated to have sects have their own parallel group of Elders. After all, a sect theoretically still follows the hierarchy of the existing religion until they actually schism. This is why I thought to allow any priest of a sect to declare an *intention* to schism, but then create mechanics that force reliance on other nobles (players) going along with the plan. How many nobles you convince to join you affects how many temples, followers, etc. come with you.

[fodder]

what happens in a religion with 1 priest only and he decides to bugger off and have his own sect? does he basically start a coup and takes the whole lot over?

[Geronus]

Not a bad question.

I'd say nothing really changes, except the old religion is left without any priests, and likely without any Elders either. Of course if there's only one priest and he's *not* an Elder who can basically take control of the religion and do what he wants with it anyway, then it's probably good that he can schism so that he can at least reclaim the role of Elder. Otherwise that religion is on the fact track to dying.

[Indirik]

A religion without at least one elder priest will quickly fall apart, just like a religion without at least one temple.

[Aldwoni]

Not a bad question.

I'd say nothing really changes, except the old religion is left without any priests, and likely without any Elders either. Of course if there's only one priest and he's *not* an Elder who can basically take control of the religion and do what he wants with it anyway, then it's probably good that he can schism so that he can at least reclaim the role of Elder. Otherwise that religion is on the fact track to dying.

When I was the only priest in my religion I was automatic promoted to highest non-founder rank.

[fodder]

ok... imagine you have a prophet and then a load of lay elders from rank 2-9 and then rank 10, a priest who happens to be an elder.

i don't think if the founder gets deported, the rank 10 priest will be promoted to rank 1 (or whatever)

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now, obviously if that priest decides to split, he should take a big chunk, but I don't see why some lay member (elder or otherwise) who disagrees with such a course can't convert to priest to keep the old lot as it were.

as with the clicking race with succeeding founder (or some such as mentioned in bugtracker as solution to loss of prophet/leader), it shouldn't be resolved immediately, but with a delay until next sunrise (or the one after, for example)

[Geronus]

I'd think you'd just let it play put as I proposed. The schism is announced, notifying all members of the religion. For a pre-determined period of time (1 day? 3?), members would be free to choose sides.

[cjnodell]

I prefer the one of the ideas suggested earlier. I think it would be best if every religion HAD to have at least one sect/cult/denomination. This would ensure that all Temples, priests and commoners are a part of a sect and make the dividing line clear in the case of succession.

When a religion is created it comes, by default, with a default sect/cult/denomination So if I create the religion "Nomonisim" it would come with a sect/cult/denomination I might call "Orthodox Nomonism." When someone joins the religion "Nomonisim" they are automatically a part of "Orthodox Nomonisim" as it is the sole sect/cult/denomination. All temples built are dedicated to "Orthodox Nomonism" for the same reason. All commoners converted by priests or Temples of "Orthodox Nomonism" are a part of that sect/cult/denomination.

A while later a priest chooses to create a new sect/cult/denomination of "Nomonism" called "Jestaric Nomonism" He is the only member. At this point all members of "Nomonism" are informed of the new sect and its unique beliefs. All members of "Nomonism" can freely choose to dedicate themselves to any sect/cult/denomination within a religion at any time. A lord can choose to rededicate a temple to and cult/sect/denomination of "Nomonism" at any time (At a cost perhaps?). When new players join the religion, they are given a choice as to which sect/cult/denomination to dedicate themselves.

Commoners could just see a religion/sect combination as separate religions. If an "Orthodox Nomonism" temple has been a region for a while, all the peasants converted will be "Orthodox Nomonists." If the region Lord then dedicates the temple to "Jestaric Nomonism" the peasants will slowly be converted from "Orthodox Nomonism" to "Jestaric Nomonism." Commoners converted by an "Orthodox Nomonist" priest would be "Orthodox Nomonist" until they are converted by a temple/priest of another sect/cult/denomination or another religion.

At this point every temple, player and peasant will always be of one sect/cult/denomination or another. If a sect/cult/denomination succeeds from the main religion to become it's own, independent religion, whatever is aligned with that sect/cult/denomination at that time comes along. That is it!

I would think that a sect/cult/denomination could be started by any priest of the religion. Each denomination could have it's own ranking of priests. Only the highest ranking priest of a sect/cult/denomination could initiate a succession. When a priest changes from one sect/cult/denomination to another, heir rank will be determined by the leaders of the sect/cult/denomination they switch to. They are, after all, saying, "You guys are SO right. I submit myself to your teachings!" As an example, if an Elder Priest on "Orthodox Nomonism" decides to join "Jestaric Nomonism," his rank in "Jestaric Nomonism" would be determined by the priests of that sect/cult/denomination. They could decide that the former Elder is nothing more than the lowest priest of "Jestaric Nomonism." They could make it a lateral transfer. It could also be a promotion. I can see the benefits of recruiting a respected member of another sect/cult/denomination. Promotion/lateral transfers could be a part of the negotiations leading up to the transfer.