Author Topic: A New Attempt  (Read 6207 times)

Daycryn

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Re: A New Attempt
« Reply #15: July 03, 2012, 05:52:52 AM »
I like this idea. More free form, less accounting-style approach has more appeal to me personally.
Lokenth, Warrior of Arcaea, former Adventurer
Adamir, Lord of Luria Nova

Tom

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Re: A New Attempt
« Reply #16: July 07, 2012, 12:11:07 AM »
I could need some help working out the math. The problem being that multiplication means that some values can not be reached, only approximated. This can be offset by two means: Allowing fractional values or simply increasing all values so that it matters little.

Still, figuring out the perfect value range is something that needs to be done.


loren

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Re: A New Attempt
« Reply #17: July 07, 2012, 06:12:23 AM »
 ;D  I could do this.

Zakilevo

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Re: A New Attempt
« Reply #18: July 07, 2012, 06:22:56 AM »
;D  I could do this.

Thumbs up for our math guy :D

Tom

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Re: A New Attempt
« Reply #19: July 07, 2012, 06:54:36 AM »
;D  I could do this.

Then go ahead and make a proposal, please.

loren

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Re: A New Attempt
« Reply #20: July 07, 2012, 05:00:48 PM »
I'll make up a few manifold plots in matlab and post the images.  It should help us see what's possible.

Tom

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Re: A New Attempt
« Reply #21: July 07, 2012, 05:24:13 PM »
I'll make up a few manifold plots in matlab and post the images.  It should help us see what's possible.

I'd arbitrarily set the range at +/- 10%, so we need an area of numbers where every power level can be hit with that deviation by all combinations of base*intent that are capable of reaching it.

loren

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Re: A New Attempt
« Reply #22: July 07, 2012, 05:54:00 PM »
Yea, that's what I was testing.  I thought about it for a few seconds and realized the only values we couldn't hit were prime numbers.  So the problem only manifests itself for about 20% of the values from 10-100, however we only allow one independent variable as someone can't apply less or more skill to a problem.  That's the rub I'm pondering at the moment.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 05:56:01 PM by loren »

Tom

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Re: A New Attempt
« Reply #23: July 07, 2012, 07:06:59 PM »
Yea, that's what I was testing.  I thought about it for a few seconds and realized the only values we couldn't hit were prime numbers.  So the problem only manifests itself for about 20% of the values from 10-100, however we only allow one independent variable as someone can't apply less or more skill to a problem.  That's the rub I'm pondering at the moment.

I think we should allow people to apply less skill than they have. Otherwise a grandmaster couldn't cast the most simple spells without overkill, could he? Hm, with energy one maybe. Still, he'd have the problem of really big jumps.

The easiest solution might be to allow fractional energy.

loren

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Re: A New Attempt
« Reply #24: July 08, 2012, 05:35:15 AM »
The easiest solution might be to allow fractional energy.

I think absolutely, any parser should be able to use fractional energy for spells.  However, I'm disinclined to use fractional energy for spell research purposes.  Here's how I presently think about it from a story telling standpoint.

In the field, when you're casting a spell you've learned the ins and outs of, all the little fine details, you're going to use all of your skill in casting that spell.  Which means you're going to use less energy to do so.

However, in the lab, or under your bedsheets when you're practicing your illuminating spell, you're perfectly free to be a little 'sloppy'.  In fact you can focus and intentionally apply less skill at your task.  I might be a brain surgeon, but if my goal is to throw a boulder and hit that house two feet away I can just lob it in there and watch the house have a very bad day.  If my goal was to throw a boulder and have it hit the fly on the door knob well then those surgical skills might've been handy, though I'd need a much smaller rock.

Tom

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Re: A New Attempt
« Reply #25: July 08, 2012, 11:01:01 AM »
Yes, one of the advantages of using spells could be to round fractions down, meaning that spells are always as cheap or cheaper than improvising it.


loren

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Re: A New Attempt
« Reply #26: July 12, 2012, 02:45:17 PM »
Well we need to decide.  Should you be able to learn any spell at any skill level, only at skill levels where your skill makes up half of your required contribution and so on, or only at skill levels where +- 10% is enough to allow you to learn it.  All the primes fell in ranges of +- 10% if I let skill levels get to 12.

Morningstar

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Re: A New Attempt
« Reply #27: August 02, 2012, 04:28:53 PM »
Just coming onboard here again, so I admit I've been out of touch for awhile on the forums. Can someone kindly explain how this gets us closer to a freeform concept? From what I'm seeing so far, it looks like the change is either a) minimal, b) a guess-and-check way of getting to what we already had, or c) some combination of both, depending on who you ask.

It's still quite crunchy and tastes like math instead of storytelling in the end, no?

loren

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Re: A New Attempt
« Reply #28: August 02, 2012, 05:04:27 PM »
Well look at it this way then.  Rather than trying to get a bunch of spells together people are instead pushed towards freeform casting.  If they want to be able to reproduce the same effect again and again they can put the time and effort together to get a spell that they've worked at.  However, generally speaking until the game is sufficiently old most people will have maybe a spell to kill someone, and a spell to do X.  It'll take them time to build up, a lot like the original SM was really where collecting spells was difficult and a sign of prestige.

It'll also make guilds and friendships that much stronger.  If someone can instruct you on how to do a certain thing you'll learn it much faster.

Morningstar

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Re: A New Attempt
« Reply #29: August 03, 2012, 04:14:23 AM »
Ok, so the major change is simply that the emphasis changes from established spells to spontaneous casting- and that because the mechanics for doing so are stripped down a little easier?