Swastika Use

[egamma]

http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Help:Religion

A word on real-life religions: Please do keep real-life religions out of this game. Religion is a sensitive topic for many people and the best way to deal with this in games is to steer clear of it. Use ideas and concepts from real-life religions, but do change the names so they are neither identical to nor closely resemble names of religions, gods or prophets of any real-life religion.

I realize this is on a help page, not the social contract, but I think it's applicable, and should perhaps be put somewhere more prominent.

[Dante Silverfire]

The swastika is not an offensive image though in the context I used. You made it offensive by changing the context.

It is my belief that the swastika is an offensive image regardless of the context and that I am not alone in this thought.

When used on temples in their native lands that is the sole exception where it is traditional. However, this is a game of multi-cultural players. The symbol retains its better connotation ONLY in limited parts of the world, while a vast majority of the world views it with negative connotation. Any such symbol with such vast hate surrounding it should not be used in the game, and especially not when you've been asked to not involve it within the game by your fellow players.

There is no real OOC reason I can think of to include it within the game except to make your fellow players upset. There are plenty of other symbols available to you that mean peace without the hate connotation. Thus, I can see zero reason to include it in any RP, and believe it is 100% unacceptable to continue to RP as such simply out of spite after asked to refrain from it.

[Tom]

I must step in here.

Please abstain from using symbols used by the Nazis within the game. There's a simple reason for that: I and the game servers are located in Germany. Use of these symbols is illegal here unless it is for historical or educational purposes. I don't really think anyone would sue an online game, but I have more important things to do with my life than worry about that.

So aside from all the other arguments, not endangering the game itself would be pretty nice.

[Vellos]

There is no real OOC reason I can think of to include it within the game except to make your fellow players upset.

Based on the player of Glaumring's response, and his RP where he revelled in the swastika usage, I believe that was precisely his goal.

[Glaumring the Fox]

I will respect Tom. But, I want to say that you other guys are in my parting comments. You disrespect thousands of years of culture from the Chinese to Navaho. You disrespect the word swastika an ancient Indian word meaning The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix.

Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck.

Im done arguing this here. I will respect Toms view but I know the rest of you are wrong wrong wrong.

Egamma edit: removed profanity. Ad hominem attacks do not help your case.

[Perth]

The point is that the player of Glaumring wrote the RP after being informed that several players were finding it offensive. He wrote the RP clearly out of spite towards them. There was literally no other goal or point to that RP, and the audience it was sent to, than to rub "as many swastikas" as possible into the faces of those people who had objected to its use and found it offensive.

In over 4 years of playing Battlemaster I have never seen such a blatant display of malice from one player to another. It was disgusting.

[Indirik]

In a medieval setting, Glaumring is correct.

We're we all medieval nobles, that may be significant. The thing is, we're not. We are modern-day people. Our characters are not offended. But this isn't about the characters, is it? Because if the characters were offended/threatened by the use of a symbol, we wouldn't care one bit. In fact, I'd say that's good RP.

The fact of the matter is, this case isn't about the conduct of medieval nobles. It's about the conduct of modern-day game players. And we don't judge the conduct of players by medieval standards. Which is why the medieval context of this particular symbol is completely irrelevant. It is a potent symbol of hatred and genocide to every modern human. And we judge players by modern standards.

[Glaumring the Fox]

It is a symbol of hatred for you. Not all people. Some of us have moved past that and respect irs history without a Nazi context. Can you not understand that? Is it too complex a concept?

[Zakilevo]

What roleplaying drawing an ancient symbol on rocks and dancing naked was so hard for you? How old are you?

You could have chosen other symbols. Why pick a sensitive one?

[Glaumring the Fox]

I think its beautiful.

[Perth]

What roleplaying drawing an ancient symbol on rocks and dancing naked was so hard for you? How old are you?

Are you seriously trying to say you didn't write that RP merely to spite the people who were asking you to stop?

[Indirik]

You're such a nimrod. I know people who had family members executed in concentration camps.



Egamma edit: removed profanity. Come on, stay above his level.

[Draco Tanos]

I must step in here.

Please abstain from using symbols used by the Nazis within the game. There's a simple reason for that: I and the game servers are located in Germany. Use of these symbols is illegal here unless it is for historical or educational purposes. I don't really think anyone would sue an online game, but I have more important things to do with my life than worry about that.

So aside from all the other arguments, not endangering the game itself would be pretty nice.

Tom, as a question on legality, is the fylfot legal in Germany?

[Eithad]

I think its beautiful.

And other people do not. You are playing with other people, you do not get to do whatever you like.

I will try to put warnings on RP around sensitive topics so people can choose to read or not read as they wish.

[DamnTaffer]

Tom, as a question on legality, is the fylfot legal in Germany?

The law in question illegalised symbols that look like Swastika, which likely includes an ancient saxon symbol that its unlikely people would try to legalise as was done with the Falun symbol.

You're such a nimrod. I know people who had family members executed in concentration camps.



Egamma edit: removed profanity. Come on, stay above his level.

I also have freinds whom had family members killed in camps, I have freinsd whom have had family members killed in the german occupation of austria. I even have a freind whom lost family in the Nanking massacre. Yet I don't balk everytime I see a swatstika used or see the japanese flag.