Swastika Use

[Sacha]

Let's be adults here, the swastika may be much older than the Nazi party, but since then it has been irreparably corrupted by them. 90% of the world will immediately associate swastikas with Nazi Germany. It's the same reason hardly anyone would call their child Adolf anymore. Glaumring, your incessant attempts to defend yourself only make me more certain you're just doing it to get a reaction out of people. Nobody in their right mind would parade such sensitive symbols in front of an unknown crowd. I'm more than a little embarrased in your place, to be honest.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Do guns kill people? Or do people kill people?

A symbols meaning only has as much meaning as you choose to give it.

[Sacha]

Well then, head to a predominantly black neighborhood dressed in a white sheet with eye holes and a pointy hat, light a big wooden cross on fire and see if the paramedics are still able to save you. A raised middle finger isn't an insult everywhere, but you don't go off flipping people off randomly in the streets, I should hope. Even though you said you'd respect Tom, you STILL aren't able or willing to drop this issue and accept that freedom of speech doesn't give you the right to get a rise out of people, which is clearly your main intent.

People choose to give the swastika a powerful meaning. Most of the civilized world has accepted that it's a hateful symbol and shouldn't be used lightly. But you, you don't care, you have to have it your way and to hell with what everyone thinks.

[Eithad]

Do guns kill people? Or do people kill people?

A symbols meaning only has as much meaning as you choose to give it.

You are right in that the meaning of a symbol is subjective, which means if people find it offensive, then it IS offensive to them, you can not tell them otherwise.

We all know the historical meaning behind it, no one is challenging that, this is not the issue I see here.

[Sacha]

So Asia isnt the civilized world? Because when I lived in Taiwan  for 14 years the Swastika was everywhere. Are Asians not civilized? Or are they savages. Answer the question. Are native American indians not civilized?

Because your view is extremely euro-centric, white euro-centric. Do you tend not to take in other civilizations when you hate things? Do you tend to ignore people of colour when you consider world history and things? Because if you do it means you are a bit racist.

Because honestly I dont give two !@#$s about the nazis... You do.

Of course I do. They shot my great-grandfather and a whole bunch of his friends, leveled most of my country and did a number of horrific things to their enemies and even their own people. Nobody is arguing with you that the swastika has other meanings. But either you're just deliberately being a prick, or you have absolutely no clue just what it is you're doing here.

Egamma edit: although I agree, I'm removing personal attacks.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Im done, im sorry I offended people with a symbol if so much controversy. I wont argue this anymore. Sorry.

[Chenier]

This is a European medieval SMA setting continent. As I said in-game, I do not believe that RL symbols have a place in BM (hence the rule about avoiding to mimic RL religions), much less on a SMA setting and much less an Asian RL symbol.

I don't think any images were uploaded, so I don't think you have to concern yourself with text descriptions Tom, but unless someone wants to bring in this symbol on other continents, I don't think we even need to judge if the symbol itself is acceptable in BM or not, because this happened on Dwilight and I believes it goes against the SMA rules.

[Indirik]

@DamnTaffer: for my part, it's not the use of the symbol that bothers me. I can see how some could use something like this once without fully understanding the impact it could have. But when multiple tell you that they don't appreciate it and asked you to not do it anymore, a good player doesn't tell them to grow up, "get over it", and then proceed to shove it in their faces multiple times.

For me, it's the complete lack of respect for other players, the deliberately derogatory comments, flippant disrespectful remarks, and completely anti-social assholish behavior.

[Glaumring the Fox]

I honestly forgot how controversial the symbol is. Can we drop this now?

[Lefanis]

The symbol retains its better connotation ONLY in limited parts of the world, while a vast majority of the world views it with negative connotation. Any such symbol with such vast hate surrounding it should not be used in the game, and especially not when you've been asked to not involve it within the game by your fellow players.

Eh? In my country, you can find it on nearly every doorstep, commercial institution, school... You get the picture. And the countries nearby as well. Last I checked, we weren't a limited part of the world.

At any rate, I respect the fact that Tom has laws to follow, and I agree Glaumring shouldn't have used it again and again after people took offence.

However, I do find such laws rather obsolete. One doesn't end hate by banning its perceived symbols.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Eh? In my country, you can find it on nearly every doorstep, commercial institution, school... You get the picture. And the countries nearby as well. Last I checked, we weren't a limited part of the world.

At any rate, I respect the fact that Tom has laws to follow, and I agree Glaumring shouldn't have used it again and again after people took offence.

However, I do find such laws rather obsolete. One doesn't end hate by banning its perceived symbols.

Exactly, I just spent 14 years in Asia in a country where swastikas are everywhere. I forgot that people elsewhere perceive it differently. I am more into cultural liberation of the symbol than hiding from it. But anyways.

[Chenier]

Eh? In my country, you can find it on nearly every doorstep, commercial institution, school... You get the picture. And the countries nearby as well. Last I checked, we weren't a limited part of the world.

I don't mean to be ethnocentric, but yea, I believe most of us would call it a limited part of the world. Despite how populous said countries are.

[Dante Silverfire]

I don't mean to be ethnocentric, but yea, I believe most of us would call it a limited part of the world. Despite how populous said countries are.

I would also have to agree with this. If something was focused purely in the United States or purely in North America then I would also say its a limited part of the world.

[Glaumring the Fox]

I don't mean to be ethnocentric, but yea, I believe most of us would call it a limited part of the world. Despite how populous said countries are.

I spent 21-35 in Asia. That limited part of the world is where I grew up. Im a white Canadian.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Limited part of the world is regarding the geographical and cultural aspects. Just because one part of the world doesn't find something offensive doesn't mean that another won't. So in a way, it is you who is being close-minded, only seeing things from your perspective without giving a thought to others.